Blindfolds as Hazing?

[AGDee]

Whether hazing or not, they are usually considered bad risk management. The risk of injury while blindfolded is increased too much, especially when you hear about things like being triple blindfolded in a moving car on the freeway...

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Whether hazing or not, they are usually considered bad risk management. The risk of injury while blindfolded is increased too much, especially when you hear about things like being triple blindfolded in a moving car on the freeway...

Assuming you don't mean that the blindfoldee is driving, how is risk increased?

[PANTHERTEKE]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Assuming you don't mean that the blindfoldee is driving, how is risk increased?

Haha, I just got a hilarious mental picture.

I don't think the risk of injury is increased when you are blindfolded (ok yeah, maybe you'll trip over a rock or something but nothing out of the ordinary). I think not being able to tell what is going on around you and what is being done or could be done to you is the real risk.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by PANTHERTEKE

I don't think the risk of injury is increased when you are blindfolded (ok yeah, maybe you'll trip over a rock or something but nothing out of the ordinary). I think not being able to tell what is going on around you and what is being done or could be done to you is the real risk.

My guess here is that the "risk" of injury - aside from obvious physical maladies, is mental. Depriving someone of their senses can be viewed as hazing. It may cause fear and therefore, intimidation.

Now, when I was in high school, I went on a retreat called "Emmaus". It was the thing to do for Catholic students. Anyway, we had something called the "trust walk", wherein the student who has not been on the retreat before is blindfolded, and two other students who have "made their trip to Emmaus" guided the new person.

It was scary, but fun, because it made you trust the people you were with. There were rules, however. No bumping into trees and stuff. Yeah, it was outside. The worst thing we did to the new kids was to pretend we were crawling under a bush, so all three of us had to get on the ground and crawl. But we were supervised by many chaperones and Catholic guilt, and no one could leave the designated area.

[SOPi_Jawbreaker]

I think the risk management issue comes into play when the people who aren't blindfolded do stupid things...like "Let's drive all swervey to scare the pledges" and end up getting into a car accident.

[Kevin]

My guess here is that the "risk" of injury - aside from obvious physical maladies, is mental. Depriving someone of their senses can be viewed as hazing. It may cause fear and therefore, intimidation.

This line of reasoning is scary. The pledge voting process itself causes fear that they will not "make the vote," ergo intimidation, ergo hazing by your definition.

Using your logic, I can say that just about anything is hazing.

Sensory deprivation is (in my opinion) proper used correctly, for example:
1) Trust exercises -- what organization would characterize going to a ropes course as being "hazing"? If there's still sanity, not one. Ropes courses routinely employ trust exercises, such as the "trust fall."

2) Team building: Sigma Nu's LEAD program actually has a module in which communication and teamwork are examined. In doing this, all of the participants are blindfolded except for a "leader" and an "observer." The participants have no idea what they're blindfolded for. The leader is handed a bucket of legos and a plan. He then dumps the legos out and instructs the participants as to how to build the project (the leader can't touch the legos) while the observer takes notes. That is programming directly from on-high for Sigma Nu.

3) Ritual.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Kevin

This line of reasoning is scary. The pledge voting process itself causes fear that they will not "make the vote," ergo intimidation, ergo hazing by your definition.

Using your logic, I can say that just about anything is hazing.

Sensory deprivation is (in my opinion) proper used correctly, for example:
1) Trust exercises -- what organization would characterize going to a ropes course as being "hazing"? If there's still sanity, not one. Ropes courses routinely employ trust exercises, such as the "trust fall."

2) Team building: Sigma Nu's LEAD program actually has a module in which communication and teamwork are examined. In doing this, all of the participants are blindfolded except for a "leader" and an "observer." The participants have no idea what they're blindfolded for. The leader is handed a bucket of legos and a plan. He then dumps the legos out and instructs the participants as to how to build the project (the leader can't touch the legos) while the observer takes notes. That is programming directly from on-high for Sigma Nu.

3) Ritual.

Hence the reason why I use the words "can be viewed as hazing" and "may cause fear and therefore, intimidation". I am not advocating or discouraging the activity itself. I am simply stating why people may view it as hazing. If you read my entire post, you will have seen the example in which blindfolding was used as a trust exercise, under supervision.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Assuming you don't mean that the blindfoldee is driving, how is risk increased?

There have been auto accidents where some of the passengers in the car were blindfolded on the way to a "secret" location and weren't able to evacuate the car quickly, immediately assess the situation, get their blind folds off, etc.

[CBU Jeff]

Originally Posted by AGDee

There have been auto accidents where some of the passengers in the car were blindfolded on the way to a "secret" location and weren't able to evacuate the car quickly, immediately assess the situation, get their blind folds off, etc.

Not from experience by any means, but I would probably just stay away from even driving people around that are blindfolded. Just think how awkward it would look to a policeman if you got pulled over lol.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AGDee

There have been auto accidents where some of the passengers in the car were blindfolded on the way to a "secret" location and weren't able to evacuate the car quickly, immediately assess the situation, get their blind folds off, etc.

Ah.. is that what was on the plaintiff's pleadings? I'm sorry, I don't really buy that. The removal of a blindfold is not a difficult or time consuming thing.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah.. is that what was on the plaintiff's pleadings? I'm sorry, I don't really buy that. The removal of a blindfold is not a difficult or time consuming thing.

I don't believe it went to court because the parties in question weren't suing and they ditched the blindfolds and got the drunk pledges (not all were drinking) out of there before the police arrived at the scene of the accident. The pledges were triple blindfolded. Eye patches taped to each eye, then a typical blindfold around the eyes and tied in back and a then a hood (pillowcase) over the head and tied around the neck by the rope. Pledges were assisted in and out of the cars by actives who yanked them by the ropes. One pledge banged his head against a door jamb of a car when "assisted" from one car and suffered permanent hearing loss. In the ER, he only said that he hit his head on the door jamb of a car.

One car of pledges was in a rollover accident and took considerably longer to get out of the car than the actives in the car who were not blindfolded. Fuel was leaking and actives in the car behind them managed to stop and get them out before the car went up in flames, but it was close. This was in a less litigious time period (mid 80's) but it's these types of events that lead to these rules. I'm fairly certain it's one of the rules laid out by our liability insurance. As you said in the "Does your chapter haze" thread, most of these rules are set for financial reasons (dictated by the insurance companies).

[tld221]

oh come ON! those scenarios ^^^ (which sound so ridiculous but lets say ok they did happen) are so ridiculous.

ok i said the same thing twice. triple-blindfolding? and what are the odds that you get in a car accident on the way to some ritual, a car full of blindfolded pledges in tow?

if those are the reason that led courts to say "blindfolding = hazing" sheesh. this is similar to "lets use fake candles during ritual because all of those ppl getting their hair caught on fire." umm, grab a scrunchie and move on.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by tld221

this is similar to "lets use fake candles during ritual because all of those ppl getting their hair caught on fire." umm, grab a scrunchie and move on.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[RaggedyAnn]

Originally Posted by tld221

oh come ON! those scenarios ^^^ (which sound so ridiculous but lets say ok they did happen) are so ridiculous.

ok i said the same thing twice. triple-blindfolding? and what are the odds that you get in a car accident on the way to some ritual, a car full of blindfolded pledges in tow?

if those are the reason that led courts to say "blindfolding = hazing" sheesh. this is similar to "lets use fake candles during ritual because all of those ppl getting their hair caught on fire." umm, grab a scrunchie and move on.

Kelly Nester, Plymouth State University, 2003

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

The risk of injury while blindfolded is increased too much, especially when you hear about things like being triple blindfolded in a moving car on the freeway...

There are no cars or freeways involved in APO ritual.