Blindfolds as Hazing?

[Kevin]

Angel, find a legal definition of hazing where blindfolding alone is enough. It seems to me that the blindfolding could be a minor factor in deciding whether something is hazing, but I'd have to look at what was going on while the blindfold was on to know for sure.

Again, the fact that blindfolding is "often" associated with other activities is not in itself dispositive.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Angel, find a legal definition of hazing where blindfolding alone is enough. It seems to me that the blindfolding could be a minor factor in deciding whether something is hazing, but I'd have to look at what was going on while the blindfold was on to know for sure.

Again, the fact that blindfolding is "often" associated with other activities is not in itself dispositive.

If you read my post again, you'll see that I was saying that blindfolding is not hazing in and of itself, but in the unfortunate case we've been discussing, it was CLEARLY hazing.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

but in the unfortunate case we've been discussing, it was CLEARLY hazing.

I disagree. Was the blindfolding done in order to promote mental discomfort (a terrible standard, but it's NPC, I think)? Unless it is "CLEARLY" the case that the blindfolding was done for that purpose, then nothing is clear.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by naraht

I'd like information as to under what conditions blindfolding constitutes hazing as a legal matter or by various GLO, GLO Council or FIPG regulations. I believe that Alpha Phi Omega's (Service greek, member PFA) current rules are Blindfolds may be used, but should not be used if it conflicts with School rules or state law.

Randolph Finder
Alpha Phi Omega alumnus

Actually, APO's rules are that its a choice of the participant to wear them or keep their eyes closed.

School or state rules/laws would always trump that.

[Kevin]

I don't know what you mean by "contesting," unless it's that I disagree with you. Your example of high school students on a forum dedicated to college greek life will be generally taken to mean that you're applying that situation to greek life -- in that you think that "supervision" (whatever that means) makes any hazing concerns evaporate.

That said, not every discomfort or injury which happens in the pledging process is hazing.

Also, the only way I know to cause an injury with a blindfold is to tie it too tight -- it's what you do while blindfolded that should count.

[ree-Xi]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I don't know what you mean by "contesting," unless it's that I disagree with you. Your example of high school students on a forum dedicated to college greek life will be generally taken to mean that you're applying that situation to greek life -- in that you think that "supervision" (whatever that means) makes any hazing concerns evaporate.

That said, not every discomfort or injury which happens in the pledging process is hazing.

Also, the only way I know to cause an injury with a blindfold is to tie it too tight -- it's what you do while blindfolded that should count.

1. I never said that supervision makes any hazing concerns evaporate. My ORIGINAL EXAMPLE was an illustration of how blindfolding is not necessarily something "bad". I was on your side.

2. I never said that every discomfort or injury is due to hazing. Let's say you blindfold your pledges, drive them around the block a few times, and bring them somewhere a half mile away. Your intent MAY be to have them work together to find their way home, but some of them may very well freak out. While some people may not say that the activity itself is hazing, what you have done may result in someone being terribly distraught at being somewhere they don't know, that they presume is far away, etc.

3. Blindfolding CAN cause injury because you are depriving someone of one of their senses. They may fall, walk into things, get scared, etc. It depends on the environment. Blindfolded in a closed room for ritual is very different than outside, open to traffic, strangers, etc. If you do something like this outside, you better make sure someone is monitoring the members/pledges, so that they don't end up injured, or worse. Even inside, esp if you are using candles, etc., I would think you would want someone watching the participants, or guide them.

Can you understand what I am saying now? If the point is trust, why would you not take any and every precaution to protect your soon-to-be brothers?

[Benzgirl]

Hypothetical question, but somewht on topic. Will it be declared hazing when your child goes to a birthday party and is blindfolded during the Breaking of the Pinata or playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey?

Hmmm.

[SWTXBelle]

I think Musical Chairs should be considered hazing.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by Benzgirl

Hypothetical question, but somewht on topic. Will it be declared hazing when your child goes to a birthday party and is blindfolded during the Breaking of the Pinata or playing Pin the Tail on the Donkey?

Hmmm.

LOL. I do guarantee that there are parents who would sue if their kid got hit in the head by a bat being used to break the pinata though! When my son fell off his scooter on my neighbor's driveway and broke his hand (badly, had to have surgery and pins), three different people asked me if I was going to sue the neighbors! I was floored.. sue my neighbors who are my friends because my son fell off of his scooter??? Make their home owners insurance go up when I had health insurance to cover the medical expenses? Ridiculous! But, it taught me to be very cautious with what kids do at my house.. and the kids of the parents who asked me that aren't invited over!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by AGDee

LOL. I do guarantee that there are parents who would sue if their kid got hit in the head by a bat being used to break the pinata though! When my son fell off his scooter on my neighbor's driveway and broke his hand (badly, had to have surgery and pins), three different people asked me if I was going to sue the neighbors! I was floored.. sue my neighbors who are my friends because my son fell off of his scooter??? Make their home owners insurance go up when I had health insurance to cover the medical expenses? Ridiculous! But, it taught me to be very cautious with what kids do at my house.. and the kids of the parents who asked me that aren't invited over!

HA! That is hilarious! I wonder if those parents have noticed that you don't invite their kids over?!