Kappa Beta Gamma/Kappa Delta

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There are smaller NPC groups who had these same issues as well and from what I've seen of their members on GC and other venues, their members didn't use these things as an excuse to try and free themselves from the group. Instead, they took the initiative to try to build up their groups and try harder.

I think this goes back to the debate of what is this group going to give me, versus what can I add and contribute to this group.

Personally, I have always felt more of a part of a group when I feel like I am adding and contributing versus just waiting for what they are going to give me.

[vedette713]

Oh, and if I didn't make it clear in the previous post, we will have a house through the school for fall 2008.

[33girl]

For your sake, I hope it does work out OK. And I'm honestly not trying to be Debbie Downer here.

But fraternity and sorority housing is not the same as building a coffeehouse or a science center - especially if the college would have to buy more land from the town to put it on. That land would become part of the campus and would no longer be taxable. Obtaining a house through the school (which, from what I gather from F & M's website, is an off-campus private house on which taxes are paid by the owner) is not the same as having a Greek Row built for you by the college, on campus land.

Saying "you will have a Greek row in the near future" and "we can hook you up with an off campus house" are two vastly different things.

This has nothing to do w/ KBG really, just a "don't count your chickens" sort of comment.

[aopirose]

So you say you're getting a house?

[vedette713]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The Greek system just became re-recognized after how many years?? I'm glad you guys are feeling positive, but seriously, in that situation, I wouldn't trust promises of a Greek Row in the "near future" any further than I could throw them.



There are smaller NPC groups who had these same issues as well and from what I've seen of their members on GC and other venues, their members didn't use these things as an excuse to try and free themselves from the group. Instead, they took the initiative to try to build up their groups and try harder.

Originally Posted by ForeverRoses

I think this goes back to the debate of what is this group going to give me, versus what can I add and contribute to this group.

Personally, I have always felt more of a part of a group when I feel like I am adding and contributing versus just waiting for what they are going to give me.

Personally, I have always felt more of a part of a group when I feel like I am adding and contributing versus just waiting for what they are going to give me.[/QUOTE]

Thanks once again for your thoughts on the situation. And I — and the rest of my sorority — would agree with you that it’s in contributing that one feels like one belongs to a group. That’s certainly what we’ve done on a chapter level, academically, philanthropically, and simply in supporting our sisters through thick and thin.

To the extent that you’re suggesting we should have continued in an affiliation with an organization that was not meeting its promises to us, hadn’t been meeting its promises to us for the extent of our careers with the organization, and wasn’t offering us any concrete assurances that they would be meeting those promises in the future — well, I’m going to have to respectfully disagree with you. (And once again, this is not meant as an insult to BootyKBG or her board. I wish them the best of luck).

I realize that if you’ve been lucky enough to be a proud member of a sorority for decades, three to four years of broken promises probably seems like nothing. Please understand, though, that that’s the whole of my career as a collegiate sister, and more than half the history of my chapter. We can’t look back to say, “the glorious ’80s” or something. We had to make our decision based on our experiences and whether we thought the situation would improve. And since the assurances we were given that it would were the exact same assurances we’d been receiving for years — without the situation improving — we elected, unanimously, to ask for disaffiliation.

It was never a matter of “but NPC can offer us so much more!” It was, “Do I feel like I’ve been treated well by this organization, and am I comfortable leaving my younger sisters in this situation?” The answer was no.

With regard to the question of whether or not we did disaffiliate fully, I can only say, once again, that I know for a fact that my sorority set out to fulfill every letter of the law and that we never had any intention of disrespecting KBG. I heard from multiple members of our executive board that we, our director of Greek Life, and NPC received an e-mail from KBG nationals releasing us. I cannot imagine our executive board moving forward with extension without this release, nor can I see our Greek Life office or NPC allowing us to do so. We certainly would never have attempted to “hoodwink” NPC or KD, who we respect very much as organizations and are grateful to be a part of.

And on a personal note, if you wanted to PM me, I would be very interested in your suggestions for what you think we could have done. Because if we had thought there was something we could have done, we definitely would have done it (no one was thrilled about having to break the affiliation). There was just this sense of really … hopeless disenfranchisement, I guess is the best way to put it. And we did what we did because we really thought it was our only option.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by vedette713

Personally, I have always felt more of a part of a group when I feel like I am adding and contributing versus just waiting for what they are going to give me. Thanks once again for your thoughts on the situation. And I — and the rest of my sorority — would agree with you that it’s in contributing that one feels like one belongs to a group. That’s certainly what we’ve done on a chapter level, academically, philanthropically, and simply in supporting our sisters through thick and thin.

It sounds to me like your chapter did what was best for you and your sisters. Your loyalty to each other didn't extend to KBG simply because you didn't feel that there was a benefit to membership in their sorority. It's a lesson to all sororities...we must provide programming and support relevant to our collegiate chapters, or we are not providing the sisterhood opportunities that we claim. Being a name for a group is NOT enough.

[ajuhdg]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

It sounds to me like your chapter did what was best for you and your sisters. Your loyalty to each other didn't extend to KBG simply because you didn't feel that there was a benefit to membership in their sorority. It's a lesson to all sororities...we must provide programming and support relevant to our collegiate chapters, or we are not providing the sisterhood opportunities that we claim. Being a name for a group is NOT enough.

ABSOLUTELY! I thought I was the only one that was sympathizing with the new KD's. It seems that throughout their history (however brief it was) they were always trying to make themselves and their organization better, what they had all wanted. It got to a point where they obviously couldn't do it all on their own. What did they have left to fight for?

As many women going into recruitment don't realize what a small piece of the complex organization they are. I sure didn't. I was like, "WOW! These girls are great. We have so much in common! They want me to be part of this group! WHY NOT!?" That's kind of the point to membership education, you learn how big it really is. To accuse these girls of disloyalty is a slight stretch, I think. They SAY the did everything they felt was in their scope to do, and I find it hard to believe that KD would have gone in flippantly trying to divide and conquer. They acted like true sisters, and tried to work unitedly under their KBG values, and it just didn't work.

I'm not mad at them...

Edited because Cht2f posted at the same time. If you look in the Delta Gamma forum, you'll see the list of all of our chapters. You'll notice that MANY of them started as a local (whether these locals had more than one chapter, I do not know). I do know that many of the chapters will integrate their previous traditions and history into the history of the new chapter. Hopefullly, these girls will do the same.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by vedette713

I realize that if you’ve been lucky enough to be a proud member of a sorority for decades, three to four years of broken promises probably seems like nothing. Please understand, though, that that’s the whole of my career as a collegiate sister, and more than half the history of my chapter. We can’t look back to say, “the glorious ’80s” or something. We had to make our decision based on our experiences and whether we thought the situation would improve. And since the assurances we were given that it would were the exact same assurances we’d been receiving for years — without the situation improving — we elected, unanimously, to ask for disaffiliation.

This is sort of the problem right here. NPC absorbtion is definitely not something I'm very familiar with, however, I think it relates to chapter issues/operations in general across all GLOs. Undergrads always think of college as an end all be all. Baring an early death or intentional disaffiliation, you will be an alumna of your sorority WAAAAAAAAAY longer than you will be an undergrad member. I can't recall the length of time KBG was at F&M, but all of that history was sort of lost once you ladies decided as a chapter to leave.

Does KBG "technically" still have the chapter at F&M? (By this I mean is it like their former chapter there closed because there is no one currently OR is it there is no longer ABC chapter of KBG at F&M for good)

No one here can tell you what you do and don't have a right to feel regarding your former organization. However, women that come to F&M no longer have the option to choose KBG. So in that way, I can see how some might view it as selfish, because you ladies decided what you wanted (not saying that your points aren't valid) in the immediate future, superceeded the history behind you and the future before you.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

This is sort of the problem right here. NPC absorbtion is definitely not something I'm very familiar with, however, I think it relates to chapter issues/operations in general across all GLOs. Undergrads always think of college as an end all be all. Baring an early death or intentional disaffiliation, you will be an alumna of your sorority WAAAAAAAAAY longer than you will be an undergrad member. I can't recall the length of time KBG was at F&M, but all of that history was sort of lost once you ladies decided as a chapter to leave.

But these undergrads weren't even getting the full college experience, it sounds like. No materials, training, support, marketing through a website that would help them in rush, etc. So they would graduate into alum status and, what? They would still know very little and probably not be successful building an alum chapter if they had difficulty even running their undergrad chapter. And if I remember correctly, hadn't the chapter only been there since 2002 or so? So it's not like there was a ton of chapter history they were "destroying".

[33girl]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

But these undergrads weren't even getting the full college experience, it sounds like. No materials, training, support, marketing through a website that would help them in rush, etc. So they would graduate into alum status and, what? They would still know very little and probably not be successful building an alum chapter if they had difficulty even running their undergrad chapter.

Oh come now.

We both know that there are chapters out there who are definitely having the "full college experience" even if their nationals may not be up to par with the other groups on campus.

I didn't see anything that said the KBG chapter had trouble with numbers or campus involvement or being successful as a collegiate chapter. If they sucked at all that, I honestly don't think anyone would have picked them up.