Minority members of IFC and Panhellenic

[tld221]

Originally Posted by SouthernFratter

Part of it is also the way rush works. Most houses get most of their guys from specific areas and specific private schools which usually have very few black kids, so they don't know anyone in the house to start with. Also we're looking for fratty/preppy guys, a style that the vast majority of black guys, even those who rush, won't fall into.

Originally Posted by SouthernFratter

And to further complicate it, a lot of good houses do a one-man blackball rush system, and the odds are good that when you get 140 upperclass, preppy white guys from the south together that you're going to have at least one guy in the group who would prefer not to hang around black kids.

as DSTCHAOS mentioned, fratty DNE preppy. and its funny that you say you'd be looking for "fratty" guys, but umm... dont you have to be in a frat to be "fratty?" plus, its quite possible that black guys who attend these "specific private schools" are as "fratty/pretty" as their white classmates.

then again, i went to the public-est of all public schools, what do i know?

by that 2nd statement, im pretty sure it would be more than "at least one guy."

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

*ignoring your statement about black males because I know it to be untrue on a larger scale*

It isn't "fratty/preppy." Fratty and preppy are not the same thing.

I remember the summer I participated in a summer program that was a joint effort between W&L, Spelman, Morehouse, and Berea college. I already had great opinions of all these institutions, but I remember being really shocked at how preppy some of the Morehouse men were. These guys were more preppy than most W&L guys! In fact they could give the guys in the top fraternity at W&L a run for their money in terms of preppy/expensive/classy clothing, wealth, and general personal comportment and class. There were definitely guys like that at W&L too, but not guys that got accepted into the supposed "top" fraternities. I felt like some of the Morehouse guys in the program were probably the preppiest people I'd ever met. I'm sure that many of them were involved in NPHC orgs.

That was a really educational moment for me - I wasn't particularly preppy myself before I went to college - I went to a big redneck high school and wore jeans and tshirts and had even been sort of goth early on in high school. So when I first met "preppy" guys in college, I did indeed assume it was a "white" thing, but it's definitely not. If you think otherwise it's probably based on your own lack of experience.

At W&L every sorority had African American members, but the "top" fraternities did not. Although - the "top" sororities had fewer African American members. They basically took the richest African American girls.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by tld221

as DSTCHAOS mentioned, fratty DNE preppy. and its funny that you say you'd be looking for "fratty" guys, but umm... dont you have to be in a frat to be "fratty?" plus, its quite possible that black guys who attend these "specific private schools" are as "fratty/pretty" as their white classmates.

then again, i went to the public-est of all public schools, what do i know?

I went to a private school. The "preppy" black guys wanted to be in chapters of NPHC fraternities that were known for being preppy or dressing in a professional manner. Or they weren't interested in fraternities at all.

The black guys who were in IFC fraternities were either as preppy or UNpreppy as the chapter of the fraternity. They meshed well with whatever environment they were in.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

I remember the summer I participated in a summer program that was a joint effort between W&L, Spelman, Morehouse, and Berea college. I already had great opinions of all these institutions, but I remember being really shocked at how preppy some of the Morehouse men were. These guys were more preppy than most W&L guys! In fact they could give the guys in the top fraternity at W&L a run for their money in terms of preppy/expensive/classy clothing, wealth, and general personal comportment and class. There were definitely guys like that at W&L too, but not guys that got accepted into the supposed "top" fraternities. I felt like some of the Morehouse guys in the program were probably the preppiest people I'd ever met. I'm sure that many of them were involved in NPHC orgs.

Yes, many of the Morehouse men that you saw were probably in NPHC frats or aspirants.

That's why I said his comment wasn't true on a larger scale. People's assessment of such things will always be based on their sample population. If you observe Morehouse, then your take on "black preppy" will be different. And if you observe preppy black males at particular PWIs, your take on preppy will be even more different.

[Senusret I]

(breathesgelatin) ...I was accepted to Morehouse and did not attend for reasons including it being somewhat of a black bourgeoisie machine.

Just my opinion.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by SouthernFratter

I mean, I'm not going out of my way to look for preppy black guys, don't really care, but I haven't seen more than probably 5 between rush, walking on campus and my classes. At a school that probably has 30,000+ people.

Ok, well I'm not gonna go out of my way to look for "ghetto" white chicks to attend an informational.

(sorry, instigating and adding not much relevance to the argument here)

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

(breathesgelatin) ...I was accepted to Morehouse and did not attend for reasons including it being somewhat of a black bourgeoisie machine.

Just my opinion.

What's wrong with a black bourgeoisie machine?

It's not for everyone, literally and figuratively.

[Senusret I]

^^^ You're right, and it wasn't for me.

I didn't want to attend a school which was hyper-aware of itself and its legacy.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by tld221

Ok, well I'm not gonna go out of my way to look for "ghetto" white chicks to attend an informational.

Replace "ghetto" with "down for the cause" and I agree with you. But it's different because while some NPHCers wouldn't accept a nonblack person regardless of what that person has to offer, the general sentiment is about whether that person understands and wants to be committed to our emphases and philanthropies.

We GENERALLY don't look for whites who "try to be black" and we GENERALLY don't look for whites who dress a certain way. If they can understand and contribute to our histories and causes, that's evidenced by something more than the exterior. On most campuses, whites do not pursue NPHC orgs but those who do are doing so because they have a reason to believe their contribution is a possiblity beyond being treated like a TOKEN (both inside that chapter and outside of that chapter).

Originally Posted by tld221

(sorry, instigating and adding not much relevance to the argument here)

LOL...sometimes it's one of those days. You actually did add something, though.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SouthernFratter

Sorry, I didn't mean like scouting out guys for rush, we don't really try to go out and get kids to come by except for people we already know and a few exceptional cases, most of the kids who would get bids at our house already know that they should be coming by either from reputation or recomendations from brothers they know/girls. I meant that I don't go around campus trying to keep a count or something, but that it's rare enough here that the fratty black guys do stick out and you remember the ones that you've seen.

Of course you aren't expected to profile "fratty" black guys and cater the rush to this group.

But to be honest, you all do scout out guys for rush in a sense because you all do recruit whereas NPHC fraternities, beyond doing informationals, generally operate more on an "if you want us, SPECIFICALLY pursue us" basis.


So brothers' recommendations matter but why would a woman's recommendation matter?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

^^^ You're right, and it wasn't for me.

I didn't want to attend a school which was hyper-aware of itself and its legacy.

Hey, you have to believe your own hype so that others can believe your hype.

But I feel ya.

[starang21]

i wasn't down for the cause.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Replace "ghetto" with "down for the cause" and I agree with you. But it's different because while some NPHCers wouldn't accept a nonblack person regardless of what that person has to offer, the general sentiment is about whether that person understands and wants to be committed to our emphases and philanthropies.

We GENERALLY don't look for whites who "try to be black" and we GENERALLY don't look for whites who dress a certain way. If they can understand and contribute to our histories and causes, that's evidenced by something more than the exterior. On most campuses, whites do not pursue NPHC orgs but those who do are doing so because they have a reason to believe their contribution is a possiblity beyond being treated like a TOKEN (both inside that chapter and outside of that chapter).



LOL...sometimes it's one of those days. You actually did add something, though.

you know, that was my first thought, but i was going for some similar correlation to "fratty." Though SouthernFratter seems to describe "fratty" as a style of dress, im sure its just as much as behavorial/way of thinking, in particular in a less-than-favorable way.

[33girl]

There was an article in Rolling Stone once about a white guy who joined Phi Beta Sigma at Bama - does anyone else remember that? Basically he said he liked them because he wasn't good to go with the IFC groups on his campus, he found them elitist. He was from a tiny town and didn't have the $$ to join one of the bigger groups.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

(breathesgelatin) ...I was accepted to Morehouse and did not attend for reasons including it being somewhat of a black bourgeoisie machine.

Just my opinion.

Hah, well it was interesting because some (not all) of these same mentioned black guys were also like W&L guys insofar as they were... ah... unaware of their class privileges. To clarify, this was a volunteer internship program in which we did community service to needy populations, so we all had all these consciousness raising/privilege awareness activities at the orientation training. So via the discussion we had a really good idea of who thought what by the end.