What's wrong with our youth? Is it a psychosocial disorder? Is it the parents?

[ISUKappa]

You have a lot of "I think" statements. Whether you like it or not, those are still your opinions, and not proven facts. Honestly, it sounds like you're just spouting off some coalition party line, holding your hands over your ears saying "neener neener neener, I can't hear you" when anyone tries to tell you a differing opinion.

Personally, I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But Adult Swim is not for kids to watch (hence its name). So why mention it?

So what?! They still watch it! Porn sites aren't for kids either, but they still look at them. Guns aren't for kids, but they still use them. So what's your point?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

So what?! They still watch it! Porn sites aren't for kids either, but they still look at them. Guns aren't for kids, but they still use them. So what's your point?

My point is it had nothing to do w/ the comment I made about increased programming EXPRESSLY MADE FOR CHILDREN.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

You have a lot of "I think" statements. Whether you like it or not, those are still your opinions, and not proven facts. Honestly, it sounds like you're just spouting off some coalition party line, holding your hands over your ears saying "neener neener neener, I can't hear you" when anyone tries to tell you a differing opinion.

Personally, I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way.

I'm open to other opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

I agree here. I believe children are our future too.

Teach them well and let them lead the way? lol o.k. Whitney Houston. You could have kept that lame remark.

And this is what you're not understanding. Teaching them well is part of the problem. We're not. Diminishing adult and parental authority over children is a growing problem. Parents are increasingly losing control of their kids, because they work long hours and have little time to spend with them. A lot of parents have relinquished authority for disciplining their children to the school, and the crazy thing about this is parents aren't supportive of the school's disciplinary decisions.

Problems within the family, such as divorce, domestic or sexual abuse, frequent relocations, and fragile family relationships as well as lack of awareness or involvment in childrens lives have a huge impact on todays kids.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by 33girl

My point is it had nothing to do w/ the comment I made about increased programming EXPRESSLY MADE FOR CHILDREN.

o.k.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

So do I. My point is that people 50 years ago said pretty much the same thing. Adults throughout history have said the same thing.

BTW, I also see lots and lots of kids who are well-behaved and off to a good start being good citizens. So I think that the blanket statement "What's wrong with our youth" is way too hyperbolic.

Besides, the only thing wrong with my youth is that it's 30 years in the past.

MC I agree with you, but 50 years ago kids weren't bringing guns to school. A knife or a blade maybe, but not guns. School shootings depend on access to guns. Mass murders tend not to happen in school or anywhere else when knives or blades are the only weapons available. It's the increase in firearms that has coincided with the recent string of school shootings. The number of guns in the U.S. has doubled since around the 70s but has pretty much been stable since the late 80s. But the access to guns is spreading rapidly and the increase has actually been fueled by people who are already gun owners acquiring additional firearems.

Yes there are kids that are starting off to a good start. I don't disagree here.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Whether you believe it or not, children have gotten much worse than they've ever been. The school shootings I mentioned earlier are proof of that. Of course they don't happen all of the time. In fact they're rare. They're an unprecedented kind of adolescent violence. I don't have a complete understanding of why they happen and I've barely begun to consider their long term consequences. I do have an opinion on the problem though. It could be from mental illness to lack of discipline, from violent media to the availability of guns. Do these theories hold water? I think they do. I'm not saying school shootings never occured in the past, but I do know they began to increase in the early 90s, peaking in the late 90s, then falling back to zero in the early part of the 21st century. Also, they only dropped off because school officials caught the problem before it got started.

They are rare and they have still received outrage and exaggerated analyses of the "state of our youth." Just like perceived increases in homicides have made people afraid of people and causes-of-death that they are least likely to actually be victimized by. Tragedies always result in exaggerated assessments that are based on a spouting of opinions and fears rather than information.

Plus, people are still going based on what they see reported in the media and others' fears and opinions. The public isn't conducting research on how many school shootings occurred before Columbine made it big and whether there have been any measurable changes to contribute an increase in violence to. You have to also consider that where such violence occurs matters. The mainstream wasn't concerned about violence as long as they THOUGHT it was kept in an "inner city and/or lower socioeconomic status bubble." As with any other incident, people's fears aren't based on an informed opinion.

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

Is violence publicized more now? Yes, and I think media coverage does contribute to school violence panic and by far aggravates the difficulties for communities in which rampage episodes have occured. Also, youth violence itself, not just the shootings, increased dramatically in the late 1980s and early 90s, a period in which rates of crime and violence among other age groups actually went down. I don't think kids and guns mix well, because the increase in homicides committed by youths came ENTIRELY in the form of murders involving firearms.

Yes, there are other factors, but we have to start by looking at which youths are violent. I'm not being biased, but I think boys are more likely to commit violent acts than girls. I also think that almost all violent offenders first manifest their tendencies between the age of 14 and 18, based on patterns that I've seen. Beyond age, race or whatever, other risk factors for violence among youths include domestic violence and abuse, weak family bonding and ineffective supervision, lack of opportunities for education and employment, peers who engage in or accept violence, drug and alcohol use, gun possession and individual temperament. Kids have always looked to elevate their status among peers, to have a permanent identity so they can acquire power over others, or find justice or retribution. Now, they use firearms to do it.

I think the increase in violence comes from violent video games, availability of guns, the crack cocaine epidemic, and a culture of violence, but I don't think any of these factors work entirely by themselves. It starts with the deteriorating social and economic conditions of inner city neighborhoods. On top of the drug epidemic, when they're unavailable, kids find other resources to get high off of. Now you have to be 18 to purchase spray paint, glue and/or Robitussin. That's ridiculous. I totally can't see how some of you can't see that kids are far worse than they've ever been. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.

This is called an "everything but the kitchen sink" explanation. It makes it difficult to be accurate or inaccurate when you throw everything in there. There's a plethora of research on this topic, including research that discusses gender and violence (if boys are more violent than girls, it is more of a learned behavior and also based on the acceptability of boys' violence whereas girls are told to "be a lady"--one viable explanation for the increase in girls' violence is that women feel more liberated to do what men have always been allowed to) and the supposed "increase" in youth violence in the 1980s and the 1990s.

People can have whatever opinions about this topic but initiatives for change (not just discussion) can't be based on "everything but the kitchen sink" opinions. We can take whatever precautions that we want but that doesn't mean that every precaution is equally significant in the violence equation. The media (lyrics, video games, movies, shows...) is one factor that matters because EVERY human is affected by images both consciously and subconsciously. However, the average human will not turn this affect into violence or crime and deviance. This symbolizes that there are safety nets such as effective parenting, an attachment and belief in the legitimacy of norms and laws, education, and sound mental and emotional health (as they impact reasoning and self-regulation ability) that need to be targeted beyond just saying that the media, guns, or whatever are to blame.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Personally, I believe that children are our future. Teach them well and let them lead the way.

"Personally" is the only word you added to your pointless point.

Someone call Whitney. lol

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I'm open to other opinions, but that doesn't mean I have to agree with them.

But you're trying so hard to show us we're all wrong!

Teach them well and let them lead the way? lol o.k. Whitney Houston. You could have kept that lame remark.

That was the point, genius, it's called sarcasm.

And this is what you're not understanding. Teaching them well is part of the problem. We're not. Diminishing adult and parental authority over children is a growing problem. Parents are increasingly losing control of their kids, because they work long hours and have little time to spend with them. A lot of parents have relinquished authority for disciplining their children to the school, and the crazy thing about this is parents aren't supportive of the school's disciplinary decisions.

Problems within the family, such as divorce, domestic or sexual abuse, frequent relocations, and fragile family relationships as well as lack of awareness or involvment in childrens lives have a huge impact on todays kids.

I know the point you're trying to make, but you're still generalizing a heckuva lot. I kind of hate to pull the "when you're a parent, you'll understand" card, but seriously, it's way, way different when you have kids of your own. Not to say that adults without kids can't see where parents come from, but parents have a BTDT mentality.

My son is two. He's in the middle of toddlerhood. That means defiance and lots of tantrums as he attempts to assert his independence and learn boundaries. As of now, we haven't had to spank, and maybe we never will, but it takes a lot of patience (of which I don't always have a steady supply) to deal some days. How do you balance discipline with letting him figure out the world around him by himself? It's hard. And, in my opinion, those decisions only get more difficult as children get older.

We can all give anecdotes as to how our parents did such and such and, see, I turned out fine. My parents spanked, they were a two-income household and weren't always able to attend and support me at every single activity I was involved in. I think I turned out okay (except for that stint in a Mexican prison - joking!). That doesn't mean someone in a similar situation necessarily turned out the same, though. Each person is different and needs different parenting styles (even within the same family).

And, how do you reconcile Helicopter Parents? Some would argue that over-parenting can be just as, if not more, damaging than under-parenting.

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

And, how do you reconcile Helicopter Parents? Some would argue that over-parenting can be more damaging than under-parenting.

I see soooo few that 'over parent' that it would be more refreshing to see more active parents. Not to say that over-parenting is excellent, but where I work the parents have sooooo many excuses for why thier child misbehaves, some do not believe thier child misbehaves, and some just don't give a rats ass.

So many of the children I come in contact with don't fear anything. I was sooo afraid that if I cut the fool that my mom would decend on me like armageddon, so I didn't do things to get murdered. lol I have seen for too many of my students talk back to thier parents/gradnparents/whomever that I don't expect them to care when they are in school or other public places. What is worse....the parents that misbehave themselves and laugh when thier children do it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

But you're trying so hard to show us we're all wrong!


That was the point, genius, it's called sarcasm.

I know the point you're trying to make, but you're still generalizing a heckuva lot. I kind of hate to pull the "when you're a parent, you'll understand" card, but seriously, it's way, way different when you have kids of your own. Not to say that adults without kids can't see where parents come from, but parents have a BTDT mentality.

My son is two. He's in the middle of toddlerhood. That means defiance and lots of tantrums as he attempts to assert his independence and learn boundaries. As of now, we haven't had to spank, and maybe we never will, but it takes a lot of patience (of which I don't always have a steady supply) to deal some days. How do you balance discipline with letting him figure out the world around him by himself? It's hard. And, in my opinion, those decisions only get more difficult as children get older.

We can all give anecdotes as to how our parents did such and such and, see, I turned out fine. My parents spanked, they were a two-income household and weren't always able to attend and support me at every single activity I was involved in. I think I turned out okay (except for that stint in a Mexican prison - joking!). That doesn't mean someone in a similar situation necessarily turned out the same, though. Each person is different and needs different parenting styles (even within the same family).

Personal experiences are still opinions and based on only an individual-level version of fact. With millions of people in this world, we can't listen to everyone's story and exceptions to whatever perceived rules.

Yes, under and over-discipline can have a negative impact on kids. There's research on corporal punishment. This is why raising a kid is more than disciplining them when they are doing something wrong. You have to raise them when they are right and wrong.

Spank or not spank = parents' decisions that people can form opinions about but can't be legislated unless there's a clear case for child abuse.

So whether or not people choose to spank, RAISE YOUR KIDS so the CPS or corrective systems don't have to RAISE YOUR KIDS. It's hard for working parents and single parents but it isn't impossible. Even if you feel exhausted, frustrated, and helpless. Find help or reliquish your parenting rights so that another person or entity can do it.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by 1908Revelations

I see soooo few that 'over parent' that it would be more refreshing to see more active parents. Not to say that over-parenting is excellent, but where I work the parents have sooooo many excuses for why thier child misbehaves, some do not believe thier child misbehaves, and some just don't give a rats ass.

So many of the children I come in contact with don't fear anything. I was sooo afraid that if I cut the fool that my mom would decend on me like armageddon, so I didn't do things to get murdered. lol I have seen for too many of my students talk back to thier parents/gradnparents/whomever that I don't expect them to care when they are in school or other public places. What is worse....the parents that misbehave themselves and laugh when thier children do it.

I guess, to me, part of over-parenting includes not requiring their children to take responsibility for their actions and/or always trying to fix it for them. It's always someone else's fault. Their precious child would *never* do anything wrong! Though, I can also see where that may be considered under-parenting as well.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You have to also consider that where such violence occurs matters. The mainstream wasn't concerned about violence as long as they THOUGHT it was kept in an "inner city and/or lower socioeconomic status bubble." As with any other incident, people's fears aren't based on an informed opinion.

Well, people tend to think of small town life as stable and close, the opposite of big cities. Yet change has come to many parts of the United States. I think that dense social ties have given way to more impersonal relations in rural areas and small towns. We have to understand that demographic change brought on by migration and population turnover have disrupted tight social ties between families and neighbors. I do think that a lot of the violence among youths is indeed concentrated in poor areas of our nation's inner cities. You also have to understand that during the 1970s joblessness increased in inner city communities because of the outmigration of the middle class and the movement of blue collar jobs away from U.S. cities. Economic and social stress contributed to the breakdown of families and other community supports for children and adolescents. In search of support, identity, and meaning in the face of declining opportunity, more youths became involved in gangs, and with the introduction of crack cocaine, gangs turned to this volatile end of the drug market, where violence is the only available mode of protection and social control. Also rates of crime are much higher in the South than anywhere else.

You also have to look at untreated mental illness as part of the problem too.

[DSTCHAOS]

Over-parenting means to me that the parents are too strict and harsh with their kids. Everything is the kid's fault and the parent spends more time disciplining than raising and talking to the child.

I knew a couple of parents who only addressed the child if the child was doing something wrong and then it always went fro 0-100 very quickly. No talking or connecting, just yelling and hitting. The kids were fearful and resentful. Definitely future delinquents when they get a chance to be away from their parents' control. Or kids who can't wait to go off to college so they can pretend their parents don't exist.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

But you're trying so hard to show us we're all wrong!


That was the point, genius, it's called sarcasm.

I'm not saying any of you are wrong. You're telling me that I am though. You have your opinions on the whole issue, and I have mine.

And the sarcasm was very funny. I was only kidding with you anyway. Lighten up.