Hamas endorses Obama

[nittanyalum]

^^^Actually the old conspiracy theory was that the Reagan campaign operatives communicated with Iran and asked them to hold the hostages until Reagan won the election (the infamous "October Surprise" theory). The first "keep 'em in there" conspiracy rumor was that Carter "wanted" the hostages held through the primary season to help him beat Ted Kennedy. The reality is that the negotiations were conducted through the Carter Administration (Warren Christopher was Sec. of State) with mediation by Algerian diplomats (thus, the release agreement was called the "Algiers Accords"). The accord was signed on Jan. 19, 1981, the day BEFORE Reagan was inaugurated. The hostages were, indeed, formally released just minutes after Reagan was sworn in. Carter, though, initially met them when they were flown out of Iran and into Europe for medical check-ups, etc. Reagan and Bush did the big formal welcome home when they got back here to the states, which is what most people remember.

[RU OX Alum]

Carter should have nuked Iran.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

^^^Actually the old conspiracy theory was that the Reagan campaign operatives communicated with Iran and asked them to hold the hostages until Reagan won the election (the infamous "October Surprise" theory). The first "keep 'em in there" conspiracy rumor was that Carter "wanted" the hostages held through the primary season to help him beat Ted Kennedy. The reality is that the negotiations were conducted through the Carter Administration (Warren Christopher was Sec. of State) with mediation by Algerian diplomats (thus, the release agreement was called the "Algiers Accords"). The accord was signed on Jan. 19, 1981, the day BEFORE Reagan was inaugurated. The hostages were, indeed, formally released just minutes after Reagan was sworn in. Carter, though, initially met them when they were flown out of Iran and into Europe for medical check-ups, etc. Reagan and Bush did the big formal welcome home when they got back here to the states, which is what most people remember.

Bingo!

[nittanyalum]

^^^Well, a little bit of "yes" on the first count, though, right, SEC?

[nittanyalum]

I was about to launch a full-scale rebuttal, shiner, but I suddenly flashed on the 3+-hour debates I'd have with one of my brothers about these type issues and I'm going to pull off that experience ---- we never made any kind of impression on each other with our opinions and I can tell you and I would have the same kind of exchange. So we'll just stare at each other from across the aisle on this one because I don't want to get all mad and emotional (which this subject makes me) at this late hour, k?

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

I was about to launch a full-scale rebuttal, shiner, but I suddenly flashed on the 3+-hour debates I'd have with one of my brothers about these type issues and I'm going to pull off that experience ---- we never made any kind of impression on each other with our opinions and I can tell you and I would have the same kind of exchange. So we'll just stare at each other from across the aisle on this one because I don't want to get all mad and emotional (which this subject makes me) at this late hour, k?

Of course, you're free to do whatever you want. I'm not really looking to persuade you, some people don't agree that protecting free enterprise is important for America. A lot of people, actually. Many of them work in places that end in "College" or "University".

[nittanyalum]

See, you're pulling me in, but I'm resisting... I will say, though, that I happen to be a person that believes that protecting free enterprise and protecting the poorest of the poor don't have to be mutually exclusive. I happen to be a fan of capitalism for many reasons, I also believe in social responsibility. At the personal AND governmental levels. And I don't work at an institution of higher education.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

See, you're pulling me in, but I'm resisting... I will say, though, that I happen to be a person that believes that protecting free enterprise and protecting the poorest of the poor don't have to be mutually exclusive. I happen to be a fan of capitalism for many reasons, I also believe in social responsibility. At the personal AND governmental levels. And I don't work at an institution of higher education.

It wasn't my intent to assert that all of that applied to you. I was merely trying to say that there is a fundamental disagreement on this issue that doesn't get talked about a lot. I think that is mostly because people who harbor anti-capitalist views keep it hidden (and I think this number is actually pretty large).

I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive either, until you start bringing in government action. At that point in my mind, the only question is how significant the infringement will be, but the breach is there, nonetheless.