What's wrong with our youth? Is it a psychosocial disorder? Is it the parents?

[cheerfulgreek]

I'm in the library a lot, so I'll have to do some research on this topic, because I honestly don't think I'm wrong at all on this issue.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I'm in the library a lot, so I'll have to do some research on this topic, because I honestly don't think I'm wrong at all on this issue.

You can do all the research you want on the topic, but you might not know it happens unless you've seen it in person. In middle school, i've seen kids heads bashed in on the blacktop. Cops were a regular occurance there. In high school, our star track athlete severely broke a girl's nose because they were fighting over a boy.

Things like that happened often when I was younger.

[UGAalum94]

Violence and amorality/immorality isn't new, but you can find studies that show that rates of arrest and incarceration for girls particularly have increased.

I think the nature of media, especially the internet, may make us more aware of news stories we wouldn't have heard about 20 years ago, so some of our sense of an increase may be because we just hear about more, but there's data that points to a trend too.

[DSTRen13]

I work in retail at the moment. I don't know how parents were, but wow ... Most of the ones I encounter make me cringe. Still, I can't imagine that each generation doesn't have its own parenting issues. Maybe it is the drugs.

[luv n tpa]

You need a license to drive, but anyone can have kids. Parents.

I just love the things I have seen from years of babysitting, albeit not necessarily violent behavior being referenced. When I was a kid, we went out side to play, amused ourselves. You could give me a 6 inch piece of yellow string and I'd have a blast. Nowadays, kids will sit and stare at me asking what can they do next. I have to lay out a $30 craft that will be destroyed in 10 days. They just don't know how to entertain themselves anymore.

One family just decided not to deal with their girls yelling and screaming. My first day, I was told to give them candy if they got upset or fresh with me because it would make them stop.

Last semester, I had a mom who actually asked me to teach her kids things. Fine and dandy. Apparently I was teaching them the word "no" because they had never heard it from their parents before. The son also, I swear, must've had ADHD. I would drop hints to her about my cousin with similar symptoms, and she'd reply with something like, "Well it's a good thing my son would never behave like that."

The girls I have now are so refreshing and .. normal. They have friends that come over from time to time, however, that are not even close. Just today I had to teach one of their guests that ripping things out of someone else's hand was wrong. "I want it. It's mine. I'll tell my mom and you'll be sorry." Seven years old. Mom comes by to pick her up, "Oh. Well she doesn't like to share. Nothing I can do."

WHAT?!

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by epchick

You can do all the research you want on the topic, but you might not know it happens unless you've seen it in person. In middle school, i've seen kids heads bashed in on the blacktop. Cops were a regular occurance there. In high school, our star track athlete severely broke a girl's nose because they were fighting over a boy.

Things like that happened often when I was younger.

Wow! What kind of neighborhood was your school located in? Geez.

[cheerfulgreek]

o.k. I did a little research on this topic. Here's what I found.

I was right. It has gotten worse. What you guys said about this not being new material was correct, but the problem has gotten worse. There's a book on psychosocial disorders in young people. There's a child psychiatrist and a criminologist that both said there has been a steady rise in youth crime following the 2nd World War averaging a fivefold increase from 1950 to 1990. They weren't just talking about the U.S though. They were talking about developed countries including the U.S.

There was also a psychiatrist that said there are two distinct types of teen criminals. She said that one very common type takes up petty crime in adolescence, based on peer pressure. The other is what I was talking about earlier. She said the other was more problematic, and they start showing signs of antisocial behavior in kindergarten. She said that these kids have biological predispositions to behavior problems. That was pretty much my point. I want to add something to what she was saying. I think this paired with an environment of bad parenting, poverty or abuse puts these kids at high risk of committing violent crimes and spending their lives in and out of the prison system. I don't think it's all genetics.

I also looked at more data from other material, and I found that in both boys and girls who went on to become criminals were likely to have shown some kind of early onset neurological impairment or difficult temperament early in life as young as age 3. The graph that I was looking at also showed an increase.

So how am I wrong. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, because you've made some valid points, but I'm not wrong on the whole issue either.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

o.k. I did a little research on this topic. Here's what I found.

I was right. It has gotten worse. What you guys said about this not being new material was correct, but the problem has gotten worse. There's a book on psychosocial disorders in young people. There's a child psychiatrist and a criminologist that both said there has been a steady rise in youth crime following the 2nd World War averaging a fivefold increase from 1950 to 1990. They weren't just talking about the U.S though. They were talking about developed countries including the U.S.

There was also a psychiatrist that said there are two distinct types of teen criminals. She said that one very common type takes up petty crime in adolescence, based on peer pressure. The other is what I was talking about earlier. She said the other was more problematic, and they start showing signs of antisocial behavior in kindergarten. She said that these kids have biological predispositions to behavior problems. That was pretty much my point. I want to add something to what she was saying. I think this paired with an environment of bad parenting, poverty or abuse puts these kids at high risk of committing violent crimes and spending their lives in and out of the prison system. I don't think it's all genetics.

I also looked at more data from other material, and I found that in both boys and girls who went on to become criminals were likely to have shown some kind of early onset neurological impairment or difficult temperament early in life as young as age 3. The graph that I was looking at also showed an increase.

So how am I wrong. I'm not saying you guys are wrong, because you've made some valid points, but I'm not wrong on the whole issue either.

I really don't believe that kids today are more violent than before. I think there's a lot more exposure of it, though.

You can't really take those statistics as fact, cheerfulgreek. For example...as a scientific reviewer, I would instantly ask you this question: "The standard of what counts as violent crime has been greatly lowered since WWII. Did reviewers take that into account?" It's also worth finding out how much research was actually done on violent crime after WWII...I would definitely believe that a lot more crime went unreported in those days.

Statistics != science.

[DSTRen13]

All I would ask is parents, PLEASE:

Do not let your young or mentally disabled child roam unattended throughout my store. We are not your daycare, we do have some creepy customers, and we do sell porn here.

Once your young or mentally disabled child does begin to throw their inevitable fit in the middle of my store over god-only-knows-what, please leave immediately with said child. No one (the employees or the other customers) want to hear the screams, the crying, your threats, and/or your pathetic attempts to soothe your child that never work. Just take the kid out of the store, where it will be much more obvious to them that they will not be getting whatever it is that they wanted. If they calm down, then MAYBE come back.

Do not purchase products for your children that state on the label they are for an older age range, then come back to the store complaining that your child broke it/it was inappropriate/whatever. Please.

End rant.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

I really don't believe that kids today are more violent than before. I think there's a lot more exposure of it, though.

You can't really take those statistics as fact, cheerfulgreek. For example...as a scientific reviewer, I would instantly ask you this question: "The standard of what counts as violent crime has been greatly lowered since WWII. Did reviewers take that into account?" It's also worth finding out how much research was actually done on violent crime after WWII...I would definitely believe that a lot more crime went unreported in those days.

Statistics != science.

I agree a little, but you have to look at the big picture. Look at what's being sold in stores. You see tabloids and most of what you see is negative. It shows celebs doing illegal things and getting away with it, or serving little or no time in jail for their actions. The gun laws have also changed in some states which is also a problem. The respect level for parents from their kids now is much lower than it was years ago. I totally disagree with you when you said it's not any different. The graphs that I looked at showed a steady rise in crime from adults who were at one time problem children. A lot of teenagers are also doing serious crime now.

It's really not that hard to see. It really doens't take science, statistics and graphs to figure it out. My opinion was pretty much right on, and I didn't need to look at any graphs or statistics to make that determination.

[AGDee]

I guess I'm bothered by the broad brush you're using to paint that generation. The vast majority of kids are still good kids. When I worked in adolescent psych, I saw the most difficult teens on a daily basis. I got pretty worried, much as you are, that the whole generation was awful. I had to open my eyes though. We had a 20 bed unit which was not usually full, yet there were thousands and thousands of youth in our cachment area. The percentage of kids we saw annually was quite small compared to the total population and a lot of the kids in our program weren't even violent/acting out kids. Many of them were more depressed/suicidal. I started making a point of spending time with my very healthy, productive, and fun nieces and nephews.

Now? I have two middle schoolers myself. I went to an Eagle Court of Honor tonight and saw a large group of great boys who are very dedicated to bettering themselves and society. I have a Girl Scout as well as a Boy Scout. I am surrounded by kids who do well academically, are wholesome, thoughtful, nice kids engaged in healthy activities. I am impressed by their ability to converse about global warming, politics, and their belief systems. The majority are goal oriented. Do they have some classmates who are starting to get into drugs, having sex too early, etc? Yeah, they do. They also talk about how those kids are stupid for doing those things. They are also way more into community service than my generation was. I don't ever recall, outside of Girl Scouts, doing any kind of service projects. These kids do them a lot, in school, for various activities and even on their own.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I agree a little, but you have to look at the big picture. Look at what's being sold in stores. You see tabloids and most of what you see is negative. It shows celebs doing illegal things and getting away with it, or serving little or no time in jail for their actions. The gun laws have also changed in some states which is also a problem. The respect level for parents from their kids now is much lower than it was years ago. I totally disagree with you when you said it's not any different. The graphs that I looked at showed a steady rise in crime from adults who were at one time problem children. A lot of teenagers are also doing serious crime now.

It's really not that hard to see. It really doens't take science, statistics and graphs to figure it out. My opinion was pretty much right on, and I didn't need to look at any graphs or statistics to make that determination.

Actually, yes, you do. You can't just say, "Well, in 1940 there were x amount of people in prison and now there's 3x that." What about the population boom? Even besides that, there are TONS of contributing factors - like ones I already mentioned - that DO make a difference. Your opinion is not completely, if at all, correct, and you should not present it as fact.