Southern accents, Eastern accents, Northern accents and Ebonics

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I was looking at some recent and old posts on here, and I was noticing the dialogue that was being used. Some of it is hilarious, but some people really do talk like some of the posts we read. greekchat even has it's own ebonics translator (DS) (lol). While it was very funny reading the translations, there really are definitions of some of the English words we're using today that we didn't use 100 years ago. I got a PM recently and the member who PMd me used the term "bitchassness" in conversation. I never heard of that term before. I asked what it meant and the member PMd me an actual definition from the internet. Then some of the words that are used in the South vs the North, East and West are totally different from one another. o.k. I use some slang here and there, but now it's getting to the point where I just don't understand some of the words that are being used today.

After reading a lot of the posts on here and having conversations with some of the people I know, eventually or so it seems, it's certain to me that more new words will form, meanings will migrate, and obsolete words will die out.

I don't think you know what Ebonics is.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I don't think you know what Ebonics is.

No, I don't, but I know it's a real part of the English language that wasn't at one time in use.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

No, I don't, but I know it's a real part of the English language that wasn't at one time in use.

At the risk of oversimplifying the definition, let's just say you really mean "urban" slang. Ebonics and African American Vernacular English are more so about linguistics, pronunciation, and structure than about the actual words used.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

At the risk of oversimplifying the definition, let's just say you really mean "urban" slang. Ebonics and African American Vernacular English are more so about linguistics, pronunciation, and structure than about the actual words used.

So they're not the same? I don't think anything is wrong with it, nor do I think anything is wrong with the different words being used in different parts of the United States. I just wonder how it changed to what it is now. I have my opinions of where I think it will go, but I'm interested in hearing others.

[SWTXBelle]

What you are talking about is really linguistics - which is fascinating. Language is never static. I think that media saturation and technological advances means it can do so at a faster rate than before, certainly. And some types of slang and colloquial speech are no longer geographically limited in the way it was before. So, a catchphrase on a television show can sweep the country almost overnight.
On what I consider a positive note, linguists have been surprised at the entrenched nature of regional accents and speech. There was a theory that tv would erase such differences. But it hasn't happened.

[Thetagirl218]

I love dialects and differences in speech! I grew up in South/Central Florida and most people here speak in what some consider a Northern accent. Once I moved away to school in the "true" South, I started to get a Southern accent!

[epchick]

Originally Posted by Thetagirl218

I love dialects and differences in speech! I grew up in South/Central Florida and most people here speak in what some consider a Northern accent. Once I moved away to school in the "true" South, I started to get a Southern accent!

This reminds me of the time that I went to Dallas and seriously felt like I had culture shock. I mean I was borned and raised in Texas, but being from El Paso you rarely (like less than 1% of the time) meet anyone w/ a southern accent. So when I was in Dallas, I was just ...according to my dad (who's originally from New Jersey) El Pasoans have more of a "midwestern accent" than anything southern.

[cheerfulgreek]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

What you are talking about is really linguistics - which is fascinating. Language is never static. I think that media saturation and technological advances means it can do so at a faster rate than before, certainly. And some types of slang and colloquial speech are no longer geographically limited in the way it was before. So, a catchphrase on a television show can sweep the country almost overnight.
On what I consider a positive note, linguists have been surprised at the entrenched nature of regional accents and speech. There was a theory that tv would erase such differences. But it hasn't happened.

I'm not just talking about Ebonics here. I'm talking about how things have changed, and how things could change in the future based on patterns. When I mentioned Shakespear's English which is about 400 years old, I think reading his English and comparing it to English today, along with other historical trends are very useful guides to the way it could change in the future. One common prediction is that Modern English is following the same path as classsical Latin which at one time was a global language that evolved gradually, broke apart and was eventually buried. Even Latin split into distinct regional dialects as time went on and later, it evolved into unintelligible languages.

I don't think we should totally rely on history because it can only take us so far, but the way global communications are today, are far from anything seen in the past. I think vocabulary changes not so much because new words are invented but because words take new meanings and are combined in new ways, which is why I don't see anything wrong with urban slang and why I was not making fun of it. I think with this, more than likely a couple hundred years from now the English language will be harder to understand. I think the vowels have changed the most. The consonants have pretty much been fairly stable. I would have to do some research on that to find out why though.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

I'm not just talking about Ebonics here. I'm talking about how things have changed, and how things could change in the future based on patterns. When I mentioned Shakespear's English which is about 400 years old, I think reading his English and comparing it to English today, along with other historical trends are very useful guides to the way it could change in the future. One common prediction is that Modern English is following the same path as classsical Latin which at one time was a global language that evolved gradually, broke apart and was eventually buried. Even Latin split into distinct regional dialects as time went on and later, it evolved into unintelligible languages.

I don't think we should totally rely on history because it can only take us so far, but the way global communications are today, are far from anything seen in the past. I think vocabulary changes not so much because new words are invented but because words take new meanings and are combined in new ways, which is why I don't see anything wrong with urban slang and why I was not making fun of it. I think with this, more than likely a couple hundred years from now the English language will be harder to understand. I think the vowels have changed the most. The consonants have pretty much been fairly stable. I would have to do some research on that to find out why though.

I'm not just talking about Ebonics, either. Shakespeare's English is actually closer to modern day American English than British English and some Applachian dialects are VERY close. Language tends to be more conservative when spoken by those who have left the motherland - they seem to want to hold on to the way it was as a form of identification. Those in the native country continue to be a part of the language evolving and changing, with less regard for keeping the status quo as a way of cultural identity.

One of the reasons English is so hard to pin down is because it has been influenced by so many different languages. Grammar often doesn't make sense because it is based on the Latin models - scholars tried to "force" English to fit the model they were familiar with, with mixed results.

Latin didn't just break into sections and die - it became the basis of the romance languages. Romance = Rome, not lovey-dovey. Because what influences the change in language is unpredictable - politics, for example - it would be very difficult to guess where it is going. Linguists have their hands full just trying to keep up with current trends.(!) Just 20 years ago who would have guessed the impact of the internet and texting, for example? I always like discussions of the word of the year, and the words being added to the OED.

I highly recommend Bill Bryson's book The Story of English for a really interesting look at the way English has evolved.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by cheerfulgreek

So they're not the same? I don't think anything is wrong with it, nor do I think anything is wrong with the different words being used in different parts of the United States. I just wonder how it changed to what it is now. I have my opinions of where I think it will go, but I'm interested in hearing others.

Yeah but when you throw Ebonics in the title and joke about having a resident Ebonics translator, it appears to make light of it based on faulty information.

[SWTXBelle]

When I was in linguistics (many moons ago) , we studied "Black Standard English Variant". I remember when the hue and cry about "Ebonics" was in the news - am now curious as to who coined the phrase. I don't much like it - "ebony" + "phonics".

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

When I was in linguistics (many moons ago) , we studied "Black Standard English Variant". I remember when the hue and cry about "Ebonics" was in the news - am now curious as to who coined the phrase. I don't much like it - "ebony" + "phonics".

My linguistics friends are very intrigued by it.

Dr. Robert Williams coined it in the 1960s-1970s(?). More specifically:
"Ebonics, a blend of ebony and phonics, is a racially affirmative term that was
first coined in the Black Pride era to refer to the full communicative competence of African-American slave descendents (Williams 1975: vi)" (Ronkin and Karn 1999)

Ebonics is often used interchangeably with Black English. But scholars like Smith and Crozier (1998) argue that Ebonics and Black English aren't interchangeable.

I remember my first exposure was as a college fresh(wo)man as the only black person in the classroom. Of course I was made into the authority on affirmative action and all things "black." So one day the professor said "today we are going to discuss Black English or EBONICS." I immediately said "there's no such thing." And he quickly changed the topic. LOL. While I now believe there is a such thing and understand why it is studied, I wasn't about to sit through that lecture back then because I had already been subjected to a semester's worth of what my classmates felt about what they perceived to be "black stuff."

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

When I was in linguistics (many moons ago) , we studied "Black Standard English Variant". I remember when the hue and cry about "Ebonics" was in the news - am now curious as to who coined the phrase. I don't much like it - "ebony" + "phonics".

soem idiots in Oakland....

BTW....maybe it's just me, but I don't buy into the whole "Black English BS...."

I do however believe in dialects and that depending on where you are you will be able to distinguish....for instance if you go to some parts of Bal'more, you can hear this....


I think either you speak 'proper' english or you don't.....

[RU OX Alum]

y'all are wicked lame

this thread hella drags

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

At the risk of oversimplifying the definition, let's just say you really mean "urban" slang. Ebonics and African American Vernacular English are more so about linguistics, pronunciation, and structure than about the actual words used.

I am really late to this here party but...word.