Interesting & Civil discussion re: slavery from Greek Life is HERE - Page 15

breathesgelatin · #**211** 03-31-2008, 07:19 PM

FTW has been pretty much defined. I use it as "you rock, I love what you're saying, you win."

Drolefille, I think you're misinformed about Saul of Tarsus/Paul the Apostle was not a Jew. Could you provide some evidence or sources to support your views?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_th...tle#Early_life

AND

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_th...p_with_Judaism

AlexMack · #**212** 03-31-2008, 07:58 PM

I don't know anyone who doesn't use FTW ironically...hmmm...you guys are late.

Oh, are we onto christian history now? I've got a lot of fun facts lined up for discussion.

Quote:

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

FTW has been pretty much defined. I use it as "you rock, I love what you're saying, you win."

Drolefille, I think you're misinformed about Saul of Tarsus/Paul the Apostle was not a Jew. Could you provide some evidence or sources to support your views?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_th...tle#Early_life

AND

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_th...p_with_Judaism

Come on, you're getting your Ph.D. You of all people should know that wikipedia is a completely unreliable source. There are other places that aren't edited by lots of people everyday.

DSTCHAOS · #**213** 03-31-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexMack

Come on, you're getting your Ph.D. You of all people should know that wikipedia is a completely unreliable source. There are other places that aren't edited by lots of people everyday.

Ditto.

I'll see what I can find in my Living Bible or the online versions of it.

jon1856 · #**214** 03-31-2008, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Since I missed this thread until now, I just wanted to pop in and say that Paul, a Roman citizen, was not a Jew, nor did he convert to Judaism before converting to Christianity. It was in fact Paul who argued against requiring Christians to also be Jewish.

That's just the post that popped up first on my screen.

Also, Jon needs to lay off the search engine.

I would if others would use them-something that IIRC you and others have pointed out in other threads.

And if you do not like them, do not read them.

This stalking, something else that you have brought up in the past, is getting rather old.

And should be rather, by now, beneath you.

DSTCHAOS · #**215** 03-31-2008, 08:13 PM

http://www.biblestudy.org/apostlepau...-journeys.html

Paul's a Jew.

I'm in the process of checking the Scriptures that were cited in this link.

ETA: I think I posted the wrong link. Doublecheck.
ETA2: No, I didn't. Here's one of the two citations that directly answers: "Paul answered, 'I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. . . .' " (Acts 21:39, NIV)

breathesgelatin · #**216** 03-31-2008, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexMack

I don't know anyone who doesn't use FTW ironically...hmmm...you guys are late.

Oh, are we onto christian history now? I've got a lot of fun facts lined up for discussion.

Come on, you're getting your Ph.D. You of all people should know that wikipedia is a completely unreliable source. There are other places that aren't edited by lots of people everyday.

Oh, I'm very pro-wikipedia. It's a strong political and academic interest of mine. Wikipedia has many flaws--that's certainly true--but a significant majority of the information there is pretty reliable. Most of the people in academia who are anti-wikipedia are either extremely elitist or doubtful that average people can use their brains to figure out whether the article is reliable or not.

The wikipedia links I entered are all for a very comprehensive, SOURCED article. That means you can go check the sources if you don't agree that the article is correct. When I do use or quote wikipedia, I do it in an informed way and with critical thought. But fine, I'm willing to eliminate wikipedia as a source if you all don't trust it.

A brief perusal of recent abstracts on "Paul" from the Journal for the Study of the New Testament indicates that Paul was a Jew, and that indeed, studies of Paul's Jewish identity are rife in contemporary scholarship:

http://jnt.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/18/60/89
http://jnt.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/29/1/27
http://jnt.sagepub.com/cgi/content/abstract/17/56/43

If you need more than that I'll go get them.

DSTCHAOS · #**217** 03-31-2008, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Most of the people in academia who are anti-wikipedia are either extremely elitist or doubtful that average people can use their brains to figure out whether the article is reliable or not.

This is based on the academics that you know, again?

It really depends on the information. Wiki has tightened up on quality control but as with any other internet source, it is often a good idea to read the sources cited unless the info is "common knowledge" (which apparently Saul's Jewish status isn't). I read the Acts chapter and verse that the link that I posted cited because I own Bibles and love reading them.

breathesgelatin · #**218** 03-31-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

"Paul answered, 'I am a Jew, from Tarsus in Cilicia, a citizen of no ordinary city. . . .' " (Acts 21:39, NIV)

Exactly. I'm not even understanding where one would get the idea that Paul wasn't a Jew... I've googled this on regular google, google scholar, etc., and am not finding anything that suggests that Paul wasn't a Jew. I suppose you could make the argument that he converted to Christianity and thus was no longer a Jew--but he still spoke very much to Jewish audiences alongside Gentile ones, addressing the special needs of the Jewish Christian community...

DSTCHAOS · #**219** 03-31-2008, 08:38 PM

LOL. The Bible says that Paul/Saul's a Jew--or identified as a Jew.

Scholarly sources confirm that but aren't the go-to for everything. I can't believe I just said that. Yeah, I can because this is one topic that journal abstracts are not needed.

DSTCHAOS · #**220** 03-31-2008, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Exactly. I'm not even understanding where one would get the idea that Paul wasn't a Jew... I've googled this on regular google, google scholar, etc., and am not finding anything that suggests that Paul wasn't a Jew. I suppose you could make the argument that he converted to Christianity and thus was no longer a Jew--but he still spoke very much to Jewish audiences alongside Gentile ones, addressing the special needs of the Jewish Christian community...

Jews for Jesus.

nittanyalum · #**221** 03-31-2008, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Jews for Jesus.

Yes! Messianic Jews, they are very interesting.

breathesgelatin · #**222** 03-31-2008, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

This is based on the academics that you know, again?

It really depends on the information. Wiki has tightened up on quality control but as with any other internet source, it is often a good idea to read the sources cited unless the info is "common knowledge" (which apparently Saul's Jewish status isn't). I read the Acts chapter and verse that the link that I posted cited because I own Bibles and love reading them.

Haha! But of course it's based on the academics I know. Many older academics I know are virulently against any use of wikipedia. There are plenty I do know who like it thought. And I bet that some of the ones who disdain it still turn to it from time to time. I think it's an amazing information resource, but not to be used without critical thought. I often cite it on the web because it's easy to find and usually very readable.

I don't post wiki articles that are crap - and there certainly are some. One of their major problems now is that so many of their articles are based on Encyclopedia Britannica 1911 which needless to say is a text that incorporates many distasteful remarks about non-British cultures.

Basically no good academic paper should ever use an encyclopedia as a source. That's been the case for years. Wikipedia has the added disadvantage that it's user-created. Yet I'm still pro-wikipedia.

AlexMack · #**223** 03-31-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL. The Bible says that Paul/Saul's a Jew--or identified as a Jew.

Scholarly sources confirm that but aren't the go-to for everything. I can't believe I just said that. Yeah, I can because this is one topic that journal abstracts are not needed.

I even found more bible quotes about acting like the jews, his circumcision of Timothy...there's a lot in the new testament. I found a link that defines his heritage, also in the bible. Paul is from the tribe of Benjamin.

DSTCHAOS · #**224** 03-31-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

Haha! But of course it's based on the academics I know. Many older academics I know are virulently against any use of wikipedia. There are plenty I do know who like it thought. And I bet that some of the ones who disdain it still turn to it from time to time. I think it's an amazing information resource, but not to be used without critical thought. I often cite it on the web because it's easy to find and usually very readable.

Whew!! Stop typing so definitively then. You aren't making informed generalizations based on a larger frame of reference. You're talking about the people and things that you have been exposed to.

breathesgelatin · #**225** 03-31-2008, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL. The Bible says that Paul/Saul's a Jew--or identified as a Jew.

Scholarly sources confirm that but aren't the go-to for everything. I can't believe I just said that. Yeah, I can because this is one topic that journal abstracts are not needed.

I agree with you wholeheartedly. I only searched via Google Scholar for articles because I thought there might be some new research that I wasn't aware of by iconoclastic scholars of ancient religion that argue that Paul wasn't a Jew. But I couldn't find anything suggesting otherwise.

Messianic Jews and Jews for Jesus... actually some Messianic Jews would not like to be associated with Jews for Jesus which is a specific organization with goals that some don't like. "Messianic Jew" is a broader category whereas Jews for Jesus is often filled with volunteers who have always been Christian.

An amazing woman, a Messianic Jew, lived next to me in the dorms my freshman year of college. She really schooled me on the political and cultural issues affecting Messianic Jews... she ultimately transferred to a university in Israel.

Another thing I've seen a lot of buzz about lately is Christians becoming interested in Jewish practice and ritual and beginning to do Jewish rituals in their churches or else attending synagogues...