Pledge possibly lying about military service..

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by scoobis

stand up

I never knew this phrase existed until GC.

[alum]

He could be doing a Green-to-Gold program. This is a program for outstanding junior enlisted and young NCOs to obtain their BA/BS and a commission as a O-1.

[TKE_KD621]

If he claims he is a vet ask him to show you his DD 214, Discharge Papers and Separation Documents.

[scoobis]

You see...i'm trying to be discrete about this so i think demanding his discharge papers may be a little forward and suggestive that i question his service. I'm going to be speaking with the ROTC member tomorrow to check up on things. But i guess what our pledge was doing was taking ROTC to get his BA and then enlisting to go career? i'm not entirely sure.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by scoobis

You see...i'm trying to be discrete about this so i think demanding his discharge papers may be a little forward and suggestive that i question his service. I'm going to be speaking with the ROTC member tomorrow to check up on things. But i guess what our pledge was doing was taking ROTC to get his BA and then enlisting to go career? i'm not entirely sure.

"Hey, Bob, I need help. I keep hearing rumors that may come back to bite you, about your military service. Will you show me your DD214 so I can absolutely, positively look them in the eye and tell them to leave my brother alone?"

You want to do this for him, right?

If it is just for your own edification, you are right to leave it alone. Then you would be satisfying your own curiosity, not helping a brother.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by DGTess

"Hey, Bob, I need help. I keep hearing rumors that may come back to bite you, about your military service. Will you show me your DD214 so I can absolutely, positively look them in the eye and tell them to leave my brother alone?"

You want to do this for him, right?

If it is just for your own edification, you are right to leave it alone. Then you would be satisfying your own curiosity, not helping a brother.

Oh my god, I don't believe it and I almost hate to admit it, but I absolutely, 100% agree with DGTess. Marker!

[violetpretty]

Originally Posted by DGTess

"Hey, Bob, I need help. I keep hearing rumors that may come back to bite you, about your military service. Will you show me your DD214 so I can absolutely, positively look them in the eye and tell them to leave my brother alone?"

You want to do this for him, right?

If it is just for your own edification, you are right to leave it alone. Then you would be satisfying your own curiosity, not helping a brother.

I think the OP is more concerned that his chapter has a pledge who is a pathological liar rather than satisying his curiosity. Serving in the military is a pretty serious thing to lie about.

[navane]

I can't speak for all Army ROTC units; but we have a good number of prior service soldiers in our battalion. As was pointed out already, it is possible for an active-duty enlisted solider (via the Green-to-Gold program) or a prior service solider to enroll in ROTC to earn their degree and an officer commission.

Also, some cadets participate in the SMP program. SMP is the Simultaneous Membership Program where cadets can sign up for the US Army Reserves or National Guard while being in school. SMP members must enlist, attend basic training and possibly attend Advanced Individual Training - that makes them "real" soldiers and they have to attend drill on the weekends. Though, they earn benefits/financial aid and they do not deploy while in school for ROTC.

Based on the information scoobis provides, this pledge's circumstances sound suspicious. Without more information, I don't understand how he could have been in ROTC, dropped out, served two tours in Afghanistan and Iraq (usually at 7-18 mos a piece for the Army) and managed to come back to school so quickly (because other students apparently still know him).

For this story to make any sense, the pledge would have to be a prior enlisted soldier who served in the war, THEN went to college, tried ROTC to possibly get a commission, then dropped out, then decided to pledge a fraternity. If this is the case, he should either have a DD-214 discharge document because he'd be out of the service now or he'd have a military ID because he'd be completing his active duty or reserve obligations.

How old is this guy?
What years did he go to the Middle East?
What years did he participate in ROTC?

He couldn't have completed ROTC because, in order to earn a commission, one needs to have a bachelor's degree. I'm assuming that, if he's in college and pledging and whatnot, that he's an undergrad.

Again, I can only comment on my own personal experiences; however, in all the years I have worked with Army, Navy/Marine and Air Force ROTC, I can say that I have never heard a cadet "talk smack" in this manner about another cadet who has served/deployed. In fact, being an SMP or prior service cadet is not looked down upon, it's almost considered 'cool' to have gotten a head start on their military career. Even cadets have pride in their ROTC "service" and they are looking forward to their active or reserve duty.

If this pledge's personality was so terribly awkward (which would be in contrast to scoobis' glowing description of him) then I could see a cadet saying, "Yeah, Billy Bob was a total dope and washed out of the ROTC program". HOWEVER, I would be VERY shocked and surprised if a cadet would lie to scoobis and say "Billy Bob never even served in the military at all. He's making everything up; it's all a lie." One solider may not like another...but he sure as hell wouldn't say something like *that* just to be spiteful.

I've already been long-winded in this post; so I'll stop prattling on. Suffice it to say that I am suspicious of this pledge's integrity based on the information given and what I know about ROTC and military service. Either he needs to let it go and hope that this guy isn't a pathological liar; ask the ROTC staff if they have any insight; or, as DGTess suggests, just come right out and ask the guy why his former ROTC colleagues would be saying something like that.

.....Kelly

[navane]

Ok...I just talked to one of my Army colleagues and he says that the guy should have a DD-214 if he's out or, if he's Army, an ERB (Enlisted Record Brief, will show his deployments) if he's still in. If he doesn't have one of those two things, he's very likely a liar.

The catch, of course, is working up the nerve to confront a friend. I wouldn't want to call-out a vet either only to find out that he's legit. Though, for me, lying about military service is much worse than asking a vet to produce a DD-214 in order to help protect his integrity. I'd like to think that, if the pledge has served our country, then he would understand and wouldn't want anyone making false claims either.

.....Kelly

[scoobis]

Originally Posted by navane

For this story to make any sense, the pledge would have to be a prior enlisted soldier who served in the war, THEN went to college, tried ROTC to possibly get a commission, then dropped out, then decided to pledge a fraternity. If this is the case, he should either have a DD-214 discharge document because he'd be out of the service now or he'd have a military ID because he'd be completing his active duty or reserve obligations.

This is the situation that has been explained to me. I'm in the process of contacting the battalion leader for our ROTC program. I've only told our president and his pledge educator about this and they suggested that i just do some further research into the matter.

Again i've got to say thanks to everyone who's helping me out with this because nobody in our house has any idea about how to handle finding a way to prove or disprove him. I just hope this is all bs and we can initiate this kid.

[gee_ess]

Is there a chapter advisor who can confer with the head of the ROTC program on behalf of the chapter?

I agree to keep it very confidential until any action, if any, is taken. Don't start a storm of gossip - which no doubt will spread beyond the chapter - and threaten the integrity of your group.

[Army Wife'79]

Each college will have a Colonel or LT Colonel in charge of the ROTC program who would know the cadets but the Captain is the one who deals with them daily. Go over to the ROTC building and ask to speak to one of the Active Duty officers. I didn't realize it was your college he had been in ROTC at, or was it? The ROTC guys could just be talking "smack" b/c they don't like him.

[ASUADPi]

Maybe sit down and start asking him general questions about his "military service". Where he did boot camp? Where he was stationed overseas? What his MOS is? Ask to see pictures from him overseas. Now I'm not saying just automatically believe everything he says (because if he is in fact lying about the service he has done he might have "everything else" picked out and planned to keep up the lie, or he might be telling the truth).

The reason I say question him, is you can really gauge his responses. I mean someone who did boot camp isn't going to forget where they did (especially someone at his age). They aren't going to forget their MOS. They aren't going to forget where they were stationed overseas.

I definately agree that you should ask to see his release papers.

[mh*e]

A girl I knew dated a guy who pretended to have cancer, and be on the verge of dying... which is sick, because her father died of cancer. Anyway, he kept up that lie pretty well for the two years they were dating. It was pretty weird finding out it wasn't true after all that time! He also spent a lot of time pretending to be super wealthy, buying her lavish gifts and whatnot, but it turned out he was actually accumulating lots of debt in her name.

Then we saw him on the news... he had a whole OTHER secret fake life where he was pretending be be a veteran from Iraq. He would wear all this military garb around, had a fake ID, and so forth. Even his mother was in on it! All their neighbors thought he was a veteran. Turned out he was just scamming people, cashing in on freebies, discounts, etc.

[als463]

Originally Posted by mh*e

A girl I knew dated a guy who pretended to have cancer, and be on the verge of dying... which is sick, because her father died of cancer. Anyway, he kept up that lie pretty well for the two years they were dating. It was pretty weird finding out it wasn't true after all that time! He also spent a lot of time pretending to be super wealthy, buying her lavish gifts and whatnot, but it turned out he was actually accumulating lots of debt in her name.

Then we saw him on the news... he had a whole OTHER secret fake life where he was pretending be be a veteran from Iraq. He would wear all this military garb around, had a fake ID, and so forth. Even his mother was in on it! All their neighbors thought he was a veteran. Turned out he was just scamming people, cashing in on freebies, discounts, etc.

That's horrible that people can so easily lie to people. It reminds me of that book where the writer just came out and said the experiences during the Holocaust never happened to her-it was made up. That's really offensive! WTF? Who LIES about the Holocaust? I hope she sleeps well at night or has no problem looking herself in the mirror the next morning because I know I never could if I did something like that!

Anyway-back on to topic. Hope he's not a liar. Good luck!