Canadian Immigrants Not Learning English (or French)

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

What's really sad is the Canadian born Grade 2 kid who is taking English as a Second Language (ESL) in school. There's no mention on whether he spent some time in the old country or not, but if he didn't, it really shows how schools have changed in the past 25-30 years (I was one of those kids. I started kindergarten in the mid-80s only knowing a few words - not enough to even ask if I can go to the bathroom. But I caught up fast...by Halloween, I was just like everyone else). Really, a kid in Grade 2 has been in school for over two years, including kindergarten. Kid should NOT be in ESL. You might say that the family may live in a neighbourhood that is predominantly Punjabi-speaking or whatnot, but it doesn't sound like it, since the grandmother says she'd like to be able to speak to her neighbours.

Tau you were privileged though, and from a school system that actually had funding to have good instructor to student ratios as well as time as resources to help these kids adapt - a problem that is made all the more difficult if the parents have little to no command of English.

My youngest brother teaches kindergarten at two different schools with high populations of new immigrants, and I know how much he struggles with trying to help the kids until they are old enough to enter ESL (they usually don't enter until the 2nd or 3rd grade now). On top of that the federal cutbacks to ESL eduction programmes to provinces with high populations of new immigrants, as well as the deregulation of education ESL programmes that used to be government run, has only produced a system in which the onus and financial burden is now on the student - basically they get a smattering of ESL classes for a grade or two, then if they want to learn more they gotta fork over cash to go to one of the many specialized schools now... and adults have to basically pay to learn as well.

With no more free government run language and culture programs the only options to learn English is to go to one of the private schools or colleges that charge a fair amount for - with this monetary "hurdle" of sorts no in place many immigrants forgo learning all but the most basic of English skills. However it's perversely better in Quebec, with their draconian "Language Laws" the Provincial and Municipal governments still run many basic and intermediate language programmes.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by RACooper

Tau you were privileged though, and from a school system that actually had funding to have good instructor to student ratios as well as time as resources to help these kids adapt - a problem that is made all the more difficult if the parents have little to no command of English.

My youngest brother teaches kindergarten at two different schools with high populations of new immigrants, and I know how much he struggles with trying to help the kids until they are old enough to enter ESL (they usually don't enter until the 2nd or 3rd grade now). On top of that the federal cutbacks to ESL eduction programmes to provinces with high populations of new immigrants, as well as the deregulation of education ESL programmes that used to be government run, has only produced a system in which the onus and financial burden is now on the student - basically they get a smattering of ESL classes for a grade or two, then if they want to learn more they gotta fork over cash to go to one of the many specialized schools now... and adults have to basically pay to learn as well.

With no more free government run language and culture programs the only options to learn English is to go to one of the private schools or colleges that charge a fair amount for - with this monetary "hurdle" of sorts no in place many immigrants forgo learning all but the most basic of English skills. However it's perversely better in Quebec, with their draconian "Language Laws" the Provincial and Municipal governments still run many basic and intermediate language programmes.

You don't think you'd learn English best through immersion anyway? Sure, it's going to be hard to actually learn the academic content in English until you speak it, but for learning a foreign language isn't having to use it and speak it one of the best ways?

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

You don't think you'd learn English best through immersion anyway? Sure, it's going to be hard to actually learn the academic content in English until you speak it, but for learning a foreign language isn't having to use it and speak it one of the best ways?

They often can't. Many of these kids go to schools where the majority of the students come from communities that speak the same language, so the kids would not be speaking English in school. Even if the schools were more diverse, there usually will be other kids who come from the same ethnicity and speak the same language, so the kids will only hang out with each other. Things have changed a great deal in the last 15-25 years in cities like Toronto and Vancouver.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

They often can't. Many of these kids go to schools where the majority of the students come from communities that speak the same language, so the kids would not be speaking English in school. Even if the schools were more diverse, there usually will be other kids who come from the same ethnicity and speak the same language, so the kids will only hang out with each other. Things have changed a great deal in the last 15-25 years in cities like Toronto and Vancouver.

Well, I was assuming that their teachers would give instruction in either English or French and expect the kids to communicate in English or French in class, so at least while they were in class, they'd be immersed.

But I guess not.

ETA: my mom grew up in the Southwest, and speaking of un-PC, what they did in her hometown, since many of the kids who started school were US born but only spoke Spanish until they entered school, was to make each Spanish speaking kid essential do 1st grade twice. The first time you learned the language; the second time you learned the 1st grade curriculum. Obviously, in addition to being pretty politically incorrect, that's not going to work when you have ESOL students entering at every grade particularly without any kind of academic foundation in the 1st language, but sometimes I wonder if it wouldn't work better just to do the language for a year before schools tried to teach someone Chemistry at the same time.