Toast Song

[GMUAPhiOAdvisor]

[quote=naraht;1608864]11) Where and when the term Viking started use.
[quote]

Viking??

I'm at least familiar with everything else on your list, save the differences between APhiO and APhiQ (not too much interaction between my initiating chapter and any HBCUs in the Atlanta area)

This one, I know nothing about, but am curious!!

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Do we have any evidence that this was used in places other than Howard? Just curious, as I've only had access to the Howard Archives.

No, but I given the *heavy* use of pledge clubs by the NPHC fraternities in the 1970s and 1980s, other Alpha Phi Omega chapters probably had the same interest, and perhaps came to the same result (with or without talking to each other).

Randy

[naraht]

[QUOTE=GMUAPhiOAdvisor;1609175][quote=naraht;1608864]11) Where and when the term Viking started use.

Viking??

I'm at least familiar with everything else on your list, save the differences between APhiO and APhiQ (not too much interaction between my initiating chapter and any HBCUs in the Atlanta area)

This one, I know nothing about, but am curious!!

The term Viking has been used by members of chapters at HBCUs, I *think* only at all-male chapters at HBCUs to refer to themselves.

Randy

[KAPital PHINUst]

[quote=naraht;1609312][quote=GMUAPhiOAdvisor;1609175]

Originally Posted by naraht

11) Where and when the term Viking started use.


The term Viking has been used by members of chapters at HBCUs, I *think* only at all-male chapters at HBCUs to refer to themselves.

Randy

The one thing I am interested in finding out is do Viking brothers at HBCUs consider all-male chapters at non-HBCUs (Auburn, Duquense, U. of Maine, Wabash) Vikings as well, even though they do not subscribe to Viking traditions per se (except for perhaps remaining an all-male chapter).

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by emb021

Who says no one wants to help make this happen?

I posed this question to brothers numerous times over the years, and based on the responses I received, interest in such an area seem to be lukewarm at best.

I know that there are several of us into APO history, who are trying to dig into the lesser known areas of our history and make it more accessible. Many of the things you list here are some of the things several of us are trying to find.

Personally, I think that a good deal of information needed to pull off a history book of the magnitude that we are seeking will need to come from word of mouth from individuals who were directly involved with such events. Hopefully we can still get a sufficient amount of information from those who are still living and in decent health/memory to discuss the information we're seeking.

While, yes, an 'official' history may come from our National Archivist (that's the closest we have to a 'National Historian')...

Based on our last history book, I have always interpreted an Archivist keeping more of a pictorial/visual history, vs. a historian keeping more a written one.

...and we've already had one (which sadly I've never really seen. I ordered one of the last ones the National Office had, but it disappeared in the mail...), what I want would be a more objective history, giving the good and bad things that happened. (trials & tribulations).

While it's a shame that you didn't get your history book in the mail as ordered, from a written history standpoint, you really didn't miss much (though there was a abundance of interesting historical pics). The "In The Beginning" chapter was the best chapter of the book, IMO. The second chapter had very brief discussions on APO's history through the decades. Other chapters included our past presidents, past Nat's Exec Directors, sections, regions, chapters, the '67 Con-Con, etc. In short, from an archivist standpoint, it was a very good history book. From a historian standpoint, it really didn't say much, hence our collective desire to put together a more written in-depth history book.

[jeremypichi]

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1609329][quote=naraht;1609312]

Originally Posted by GMUAPhiOAdvisor

The one thing I am interested in finding out is do Viking brothers at HBCUs consider all-male chapters at non-HBCUs (Auburn, Duquense, U. of Maine, Wabash) Vikings as well, even though they do not subscribe to Viking traditions per se (except for perhaps remaining an all-male chapter).

I have talked to a few brothers from HBCUs and they seem to consider Pi Chi a Viking chapter, mainly because of our all-male status. We were never too familiar with Viking chapters until we met some of them at the last Nat'l Convention

[arvid1978]

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1609329][quote=naraht;1609312]

Originally Posted by GMUAPhiOAdvisor

The one thing I am interested in finding out is do Viking brothers at HBCUs consider all-male chapters at non-HBCUs (Auburn, Duquense, U. of Maine, Wabash) Vikings as well, even though they do not subscribe to Viking traditions per se (except for perhaps remaining an all-male chapter).

Wabash is not exactly an all-male chapter. They are on an all-male campus, but have a female advisor. Even prior to that, they were most certainly not a Viking chapter by any means. Neither was the chapter at Rose-Hulman prior to the campus going co-ed.

[Attractive#7]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

In that case, your best bet (IMO) would be to talk to a co-charter member(s) of an A-Phi-Que chapter, preferably chapters founded prior to 1976, which the vast majority of them were. The older the chapter, the more likely the information provided will be objective (I'd say any of the 1st 10 A-Phi-Que chapters its founders will most likely provide objective information). These chapters would be:

Johnson C. Smith (Delta Phi--I actually met one of their co-founders at the '96 Convention).
Howard (Zeta Phi)
Central State (Iota Epsilon)
Kappa Delta (FAMU)
Kappa Lambda (Southern-BR)
Kappa Xi (Xavier of La.)
Kappa Pi (Wiley)
Kappa Psi (NC A&T)
Mu Gamma (Morgan State)
Nu Iota (Bethune Cookman).

I don't know if you're going to find any info per se on A-Phi-Que in print form (though it would've been nice if some was kept).

When and where did you pledge? I think I overlooked your info in the Roll Call.

[naraht]

[QUOTE=arvid1978;1610656][QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1609329]

Originally Posted by naraht

Wabash is not exactly an all-male chapter. They are on an all-male campus, but have a female advisor. Even prior to that, they were most certainly not a Viking chapter by any means. Neither was the chapter at Rose-Hulman prior to the campus going co-ed.

I did a Google search on them and one article (http://www.wabash.edu/news/displayst...m?news_ID=3520) said they had been advised for the last 20 years by Terri Fyffe and Larry Frye. I found another article that clearly showed Terri as a woman (http://bachelor.wabash.edu/issues/2003s/issue6.pdf). I've heard a Region VI staff member describe them as a co-ed chapter that just doesn't happen to have any female brothers.

Of the Regions that currently have no all-male chapters at co-ed schools (AMC@CS) (III,VI,VIII,&X/XI), I know where the last was in two of these, III (Morgan State-Mu Gamma) and VIII (Parks College of SLU-Theta Xi). I have no idea where the last AMC@CS was in either VI or X/XI (XI has never had one, the last AMC@CS in Region X predates the X/XI split by at least a decade). I'm not counting Rose Hulman for VI even though there was one year (semester?) when they fit that definition. There were only something like 6 women taking classes there and they lived in dorms at another college.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Attractive#7

When and where did you pledge? I think I overlooked your info in the Roll Call.

Kent State University (Epsilon Psi chapter), crossed on May 7, 1992 (last Viking line at Epsilon Psi).

[emb021]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I can't agree with that, at least not in the works I've already cited.

Am not aware of the works you've cited, but I have read some organizational histories (outside the world of GLOs), where its clear to me that certain organizational issues were glossed over.

Heck, even in the area of scouting history you need to go to independent sources to get the real story. The BSA has for decades trotted out a story about their founding (one which I repeated myself) that I've learned only in recent years is probably either widely exagerated, or at worse wholy fictious.

Hence the need for a more independence in the area of historical reporting.

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by naraht

I did a Google search on them and one article (http://www.wabash.edu/news/displayst...m?news_ID=3520) said they had been advised for the last 20 years by Terri Fyffe and Larry Frye. I found another article that clearly showed Terri as a woman (http://bachelor.wabash.edu/issues/2003s/issue6.pdf). I've heard a Region VI staff member describe them as a co-ed chapter that just doesn't happen to have any female brothers.

That's a fairly accurate description of them, I think.

Originally Posted by naraht

Of the Regions that currently have no all-male chapters at co-ed schools (AMC@CS) (III,VI,VIII,&X/XI), I know where the last was in two of these, III (Morgan State-Mu Gamma) and VIII (Parks College of SLU-Theta Xi). I have no idea where the last AMC@CS was in either VI or X/XI (XI has never had one, the last AMC@CS in Region X predates the X/XI split by at least a decade). I'm not counting Rose Hulman for VI even though there was one year (semester?) when they fit that definition. There were only something like 6 women taking classes there and they lived in dorms at another college.

I wouldn't count Tau Lambda (Rose-Hulman) either, as it wasn't single-gender by choice. I honestly do not know how long it took our chapters to go co-ed. I'm confident in saying that most of Illinois (at the time) went co-ed right away, if they weren't already jumping the gun. I'd assume Indiana, with it's large number of inactive chapters, probably did "co-ed or die". No idea about Michigan, though.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

I wouldn't count Tau Lambda (Rose-Hulman) either, as it wasn't single-gender by choice. I honestly do not know how long it took our chapters to go co-ed. I'm confident in saying that most of Illinois (at the time) went co-ed right away, if they weren't already jumping the gun. I'd assume Indiana, with it's large number of inactive chapters, probably did "co-ed or die". No idea about Michigan, though.

From what I understand Tau Lambda asked the RD whether they needed to go co-ed as soon as the school did and were *specifically* told they didn't have to get one of the first six women who were students and that it probably wasn't a good idea if they tried. They however did get one of the next group of women (~20) on campus.

I don't think any of the Regions really tried for co-ed or die at any time prior to 2006...

Randy

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by naraht

I don't think any of the Regions really tried for co-ed or die at any time prior to 2006...

No, I'm not saying they were directed to go co-ed or die, I'm just guessing that the chapters in Indiana that didn't go co-ed all died out, because up until recently they were down to, what 7-8 chapters in the state out of 16 or so charters total?

[naraht]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

No, I'm not saying they were directed to go co-ed or die, I'm just guessing that the chapters in Indiana that didn't go co-ed all died out, because up until recently they were down to, what 7-8 chapters in the state out of 16 or so charters total?

Well, that is about the average for the Fraternity, we only have about half of our charters active.