Why Haze!!

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by sasquatch

The problem is that "hazing" is so vague. It's a joke. "Hazing" can be practiced without degrading anyone or putting them in any danger. All this has already been mentioned, but based on your post I'm not sure if you read it. It's not a black and white issue. "But it's illegal blah blah". To that I say, "do you drink? are you 21? do you ever speed?". To that you might say, "but hazing is more dangerous"...well not necessarily. We could go on forever with this issue. There is no definitive answer.

I understand your point. And as others have noted, I too have an issue when hazing acts are not clearly defined. However, if something is illegal, well duh, it is illegal.

If you are under 21 and caught drinking, you can go to jail. If you are caught speeding, you can be fined. You may loose your license. You might even end up in jail. Even if you have not really put yourself or anyone else in harms way. As such, my point is that you (the general you) are taking a risk when you do something illegal. Even if it may not seem to be harmful. And this is the reason that illegal hazing acts fall under Risk Management.

To be clear, I do not think that all so called hazing acts are illegal. But if a specific act has been defined as illegal by the State, or by the University, or by your HQ, or by your chapter, then it is simply illegal.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by TSteven

To be clear, I do not think that all so called hazing acts are illegal. But if a specific act has been defined as illegal by the State, or by the University, or by your HQ, or by your chapter, then it is simply illegal.

But that's the problem. Very few things ARE "specific" or "defined." And even if there is a list of things, too often that "anything else which might cause physical or mental discomfort" phrase gets thrown in, and anyone who wants to take a chapter down can try to do so.

As I've said, my all time favorite is the sorority pledge from my campus who pointed out that she was being hazed by having to go to the anti-hazing workshop (since it was mandatory for all pledges and initiated members did not have to attend). Silly, but honestly, if you want to walk that kind of walk, she was 100% right.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by 33girl

But that's the problem. Very few things ARE "specific" or "defined." And even if there is a list of things, too often that "anything else which might cause physical or mental discomfort" phrase gets thrown in, and anyone who wants to take a chapter down can try to do so.

As I've said, my all time favorite is the sorority pledge from my campus who pointed out that she was being hazed by having to go to the anti-hazing workshop (since it was mandatory for all pledges and initiated members did not have to attend). Silly, but honestly, if you want to walk that kind of walk, she was 100% right.

I love it. I hope she became panhellenic president!

You are so right. It is the activities that are kind of general and non specific that often are the issue. If we go back to the driving example, it may be legal to drive at 70 MPH on the interstate in one state. But as soon as you cross the state line, the legal limit may be 65 MPH. As such, the same activity is legal in one, and not the other. So if you want to be safe, you know that you should never drive above 65 regardless of the speed limit.

So if this could be applied to GLOs, then maybe all the national organizations can set down and say, 65 MPH is going to be the limit regardless of the state. That way, we will never be breaking the law. And all chapters of all groups will have the same policy.

As for the less defined or specific acts, again I think there has to be some sort of clear and unified definition. I know many of us have said that. As such, I feel we need to find and define the so called "65 MPH limit". And if a specific organization wants to go above and beyond that (drop the speed limit to 60 MPH to use that example) that would be ok as well.

The sooner there is a unified definition, the better for all chapters.