Less popular sororities

[UGAalum94]

SWTXbelle, I'm always happy to read what you have to say and I think you do a fine job explaining why you think what you do. I also know from reading it here about your background of service, so I understand the range of experience you bring to the GC table.

That said, I also think there's usually at least a grain of truth in what Elephant Walk posts. For me, the truth he relays falls into the category of stuff I wish weren't true but may be.

Some campuses have several chapters that are so historically strong that it's hard for other groups to do as well because the strength is self-perpetuating. Girls go to college hoping to join certain chapters; those chapters have an easier time recruiting based on this reputation, they recruit top girls; the girls represent well on campus, the group is popular with other groups; the cycle continues. We all know this goes on many traditional campuses.

There's still plenty of room for other less historic chapters to do well. Other great girls go through recruitment and they can find a home and prosper in other chapters and make great grades be involved on campus, but their reputation is made more year to year and they can rise and fall based on shorter term trends because they've really got to rush girls every year without the advanced hype (or as much advanced hype).

So, if the second type makes a "risky" call during recruitment in the eyes of fraternity guys, (I don't mean in the eyes of sorority women or alumnae who hold the core values of the GLO high; I mean too many fat girls or ugly girls, or emo girls, or athletic girls or maybe too many minority members on a campus where "eekkk, we need to be old south") then it can affect the socials they are able to have or which groups will pair with them for homecoming or Greek week or whatever. And the lack of socials and discussion about why makes them less "popular." And then you've got tent talk during the next rush, and then they don't make quota, and then the girls going through rush report to their alumnae mothers that the chapter isn't good or isn't nice, and then the alum moms are less likely to keep helping the chapter, and then the decline in membership continues.

Some groups' status in the popularity hierarchy IS more precarious at some campuses. When they aren't doing well, it may be traceable a decision to go their own way and buck the traditional values of the campus which didn't end up paying off in membership. The "traditional" values of the campus in this area may stink and be antithetical to the core values that the NPC groups all seem to hold, but it's doesn't mean that the chapter is going to be able to prosper.

[ASUADPi]

Sometimes it makes me wonder how a chapter can be above total and not even a decade later they are considered "struggling" by nationals. I wonder what happened during those intervening years.

I also feel that other sororities are guilty of ruining a chapters reputation. All it takes is being childish and pissed at another sorority and "boom" the rumor starts spreading like wildfire and if that particular chapter is struggling it gets around. As if the PNM's don't "tent talk"

I mean lets face it, in reality I would guess that 75% of the rumors floating around about chapters are started by other chapters (sorority or fraternity). People talk crap, fact of life. And most people can't cop up to the fact of talking crap.

[shadokat]

Honestly, ASUADPi, I've watched this happen before to a very good chapter. They made quota at formal recruitment for literally like 14 years in a row! Then, at year 15, they missed quota by 2, and they were upset, but figured hey, we're only 2 short, it's not that big a deal, and plus, we got the girls we really wanted. In year 16, they missed quota by 2 again, and they also graduated a rather large new member class from 2 years previous. Double whammy...and again, they said it sucked to miss quota but they did get the girls they really wanted. They never COB'd to make up to quota, and slowly, they dropped under total. It continued on for about 3 or 4 more years, and eventually, many of the girls they really wanted went to other chapters, and their NM classes got smaller. They lost their desire to promote themselves as they once did, and things went downhill. Thankfully, they got a new chapter advisor (they didn't have one for awhile apparently), and she really showed them that you gotta work hard and stay strong to keep those high numbers and reputations that you had. They turned their ship around and are one of the best chapters on campus again, but they learned a valuable lesson. Every chapter can fall from grace, and honestly, nobody on their campus felt bad about it. They realized THEY were the ones who had to change.

Off on another tangent, I read a post that someone wrote about if PNMs realized that if they got a large enough group, they could turn a "worst" house around. And that happened at a state school in Pennsylvania. An entire floor of sophmores who were not greek all joined the same sorority and said, they stink right now, but they won't when we're done. They took it over basically, and while it sucked probably for the older members, that sorority is tops on campus now. It's all about how you see things.

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

Sometimes it makes me wonder how a chapter can be above total and not even a decade later they are considered "struggling" by nationals. I wonder what happened during those intervening years.

I also feel that other sororities are guilty of ruining a chapters reputation. All it takes is being childish and pissed at another sorority and "boom" the rumor starts spreading like wildfire and if that particular chapter is struggling it gets around. As if the PNM's don't "tent talk"

I mean lets face it, in reality I would guess that 75% of the rumors floating around about chapters are started by other chapters (sorority or fraternity). People talk crap, fact of life. And most people can't cop up to the fact of talking crap.

[UGAalum94]

EW,

I may have missed something in your posts. I understood you to say that because this chapter pledged a minority member that no decent group would want to associate with them socially, and you seemed to say it a way that indicated that you thought that this was right and good. As if, of course, after they pledged the minority member, no good groups would deal with them. They got what they deserved for being so stupid as to pledge a minority. Maybe I read over the part where you expressed sadness at the injustice of social shunning based on the race of members.

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

EW,

I may have missed something in your posts. I understood you to say that because this chapter pledged a minority member that no decent group would want to associate with them socially, and you seemed to say it a way that indicated that you thought that this was right and good. As if, of course, after they pledged the minority member, no good groups would deal with them. They got what they deserved for being so stupid as to pledge a minority. Maybe I read over the part where you expressed sadness at the injustice of social shunning based on the race of members.

Well they were not doing terribly well before hand, so initial shunning had nothing to do with a minority.

Given the position they were in at the time (doing poorly on campus with no traditions/connections) and knowing the attitude of the campus towards this sort of thing at the time, it was not a good choice to pick a minority. If one wants to look at reality and what it set off, then there's no way around it.

Top sororities can pledge a minority and everything be great because they rest on their tradition. A relatively new sorority (and struggling) cannot do the same. At the position they were in at the time, it was not a good idea but of course this is all in hindsight which is an important thing to consider.

The entire point of what I have been driving home repetitively is that it is about tradition and connections, which was what I said in my initial post. If they have the tradition and connections, a sorority can do whatever it likes with it's pledge classes and be successful (resting on it's laurels, essentially), regardless of the social attitudes in the area.

I don't have to express "sadness at the injustice" etc, because this is evident as well. It is my cousins sorority and I hate to see it fall off like it will because of poor decisions and certain social taboos. It was her only shot at a sorority because she was from out of state.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

Well they were not doing terribly well before hand, so initial shunning had nothing to do with a minority.

Given the position they were in at the time (doing poorly on campus with no traditions/connections) and knowing the attitude of the campus towards this sort of thing at the time, it was not a good choice to pick a minority. If one wants to look at reality and what it set off, then there's no way around it.

Top sororities can pledge a minority and everything be great because they rest on their tradition. A relatively new sorority (and struggling) cannot do the same. At the position they were in at the time, it was not a good idea but of course this is all in hindsight which is an important thing to consider.

The entire point of what I have been driving home repetitively is that it is about tradition and connections, which was what I said in my initial post. If they have the tradition and connections, a sorority can do whatever it likes with it's pledge classes and be successful (resting on it's laurels, essentially), regardless of the social attitudes in the area.

I don't have to express "sadness at the injustice" etc, because this is evident as well. It is my cousins sorority and I hate to see it fall off like it will because of poor decisions and certain social taboos. It was her only shot at a sorority because she was from out of state.

If you care about not coming off as racist, I think you have to be more careful about how you present the circumstances.

I don't dispute for a minute that a new or struggling chapter faces a different level of risk if they innovate in any way. But when it comes to losing even more status for making a membership decision that is punished, for lack of a better word, for the race of the new member, either in whole or part (meaning maybe it's race, maybe it's half class), it's the system with the problem rather than the chapter.

It doesn't change the outcome for the chapter, but it should change how we think of the situation and it should, if you really are interested in racial justice, provoke a desire to change the system.

ETA: I'm not trying to get on some moral high horse with you. A couple of years ago, Macallen and I went a few rounds on this issue in one of the fraternity threads, and I don't really care about doing it again. It's just a tough situation. It requires that elite groups recognize that they have a greater responsibility than any other groups for the continued segregation of the system and, if you care about moral leadership, really requires that they step up and behave differently. Members of these groups don't necessarily want to. They want to have the same kind of effortless associations with other people like themselves that they've had for generations and since they pride themselves on being the most selective groups, they are particularly resentful of being pressed on membership decisions from the outside.

[SWTXBelle]

Speaking as an apparently race-less southern sorority alumna who is really interested in the op, may I suggest that we ignore any self-serving tangents and again address ourselves to the hows and whys of chapters that seem to be regarded as "lower tier", and what they can do about it?

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

So, if the second type makes a "risky" call during recruitment in the eyes of fraternity guys, (I don't mean in the eyes of sorority women or alumnae who hold the core values of the GLO high; I mean too many fat girls or ugly girls, or emo girls, or athletic girls or maybe too many minority members on a campus where "eekkk, we need to be old south") then it can affect the socials they are able to have or which groups will pair with them for homecoming or Greek week or whatever.

This was exactly what happened...

I wasn't going to spell it out completely but certain decisions such as this...a certain girl was in question for a very long time...they finally voted her in.

With a lack of tradition and poor decision making, it will eventually sink this chapter here in a year or two.

I forgot to address this:

Women often are a part of fraternity rush. Men are never a part of sorority rush (well, unless you count them hauling stuff in and out of the house.)The Grand Consul of Sigma Chi personally presented me with a badge replica for my work with their Theta Tau chapter, so it's fair to say that I was a little more involved with fraternity rush and life than the average co-ed.

Is that in Arizona? Then it's not a Southern fraternity. The stuff that you know about sororities...doesn't really matter to Southern sororities. Some stuff is correct, to be sure but it's another world in my opinion.

I doubt my cousin "broke any chapter rules" by telling me what was going on in the voting by telling me about something that happened four or five years previous to her telling me, and her being out of college for at least two years after she told me. If she did break rules on such a past event, I don't think it matters.