2nd Amendement Rights

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

psssst...it was in that other thread....



But you actually didn't take the deterrence comment back. So you really did/do think your gun under your pillows deters individual criminals.

I clearly said that my support for concealed carry on campus had nothing to do with deterrence, at least not in the "they won't come to campus and shoot us because they think we might have guns" way (which is what you seemed to reference a couple posts up).

I said the same thing about guns in the home, pretty much. You seemed to be referring to a community wide "they'll have guns, lets not do this" deterrent effect, while I mentioned an individual deterrent effect. By that, I mean "2 to the chest, you're not coming any farther towards me or mine" type impact. So sure, that individual effect could extend to campus carry too, but my rationale for campus carry is simply an extension of the already-existing carry rights. Certainly has nothing to do with the idea that people won't attack schools because they're concerned about guns, though if that occurred it would be beneficial (like some studies show for gun ownership in the home).

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I clearly said that my support for concealed carry on campus had nothing to do with deterrence, at least not in the "they won't come to campus and shoot us because they think we might have guns" way (which is what you seemed to reference a couple posts up).

I said the same thing about guns in the home, pretty much. You seemed to be referring to a community wide "they'll have guns, lets not do this" deterrent effect, while I mentioned an individual deterrent effect. By that, I mean "2 to the chest, you're not coming any farther towards me or mine" type impact. So sure, that individual effect could extend to campus carry too, but my rationale for campus carry is simply an extension of the already-existing carry rights. Certainly has nothing to do with the idea that people won't attack schools because they're concerned about guns, though if that occurred it would be beneficial (like some studies show for gun ownership in the home).

Deterrence can be specific or general in that people can be deterred through direct experience or through the experiences of others/general climate. I was not talking about community wide deterrence but, either way, a deterrent effect is a deterrent effect.

So what you're talking about really isn't deterrence unless you're arguing that people who are faced with gun wielding citizens will not attempt to offend in the future. It's more of a self-defense argument, which makes sense based on everything else you've said. You know that "deter/deterrence" has a lot of criminological and legal theory and meaning behind it so to say having a gun under your pillow/having guns in a classroom has a deterrent effect means something different than what you intended.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Deterrence can be specific or general. I was not talking about community wide deterrence but, either way, a deterrent effect is a deterrent effect.

So what you're talking about really isn't deterrence unless you're arguing that people who are faced with gun wielding citizens will not attempt to offend in the future. You know that "deter/deterrence" has a lot of criminological and legal theory and meaning behind it so to say having a gun under your pillow/having guns in a classroom has a deterrent effect means something different than what you intended.

It was pretty clear what I was saying, considering I specified how I was using the concept of deterrence. I'm pretty sure you knew what I was saying as well.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

It was pretty clear what I was saying, considering I specified how I was using the concept of deterrence. I'm pretty sure you knew what I was saying as well.

*waving at you as we type past each other*

If I say I didn't know what the hell you meant or whether you knew what the hell you meant, that's what it is. It isn't up to you to change what deterrence means. So now that we agree that you meant "self-defense" instead of deterrence, OKAY, move along lookieloos...nothing to see here.