The 2008 presidential field at-a-glance

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think this is very disputable. While I might agree that the War in Iraq has not been run overly well, or even poorly at times, I don't think the decision to go to and continually wage the war was "cavalier." Disagreement about our handling of the situation is perfectly fine, but a cavalier attitude about putting people in harms way is arguably treason.

Bush at War by Bob Woodward gives the best account I've seen regarding the decision to go to war, and while it certainly isn't overly flattering to the Bush administration, it doesn't portray Bush as cavalier. Quite the opposite, actually.

Ok, I'll give you the fact that "cavalier" in terms of talking about Bush might not have been the most correctly descriptive word I could use, but it definitely describes McCain's song, and that is the point of the thread, after all... the 2008 presidential field at a glance, and Bush won't be on the ballot. I'm through being concerned about Bush (unless he does something really stupid in the next 11 months). I don't want a president in my future to be joking about the possibility of more attacks. Those decisions affect my family personally, and I don't find the proposition funny at all.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by scbelle

Ok, I'll give you the fact that "cavalier" in terms of talking about Bush might not have been the most correctly descriptive word I could use, but it definitely describes McCain's song, and that is the point of the thread, after all... the 2008 presidential field at a glance, and Bush won't be on the ballot. I'm through being concerned about Bush (unless he does something really stupid in the next 11 months). I don't want a president in my future to be joking about the possibility of more attacks. Those decisions affect my family personally, and I don't find the proposition funny at all.

That is understandable. I'm not really outraged by his song, though I do think it was pretty absurd (as in lame). However, when you get down to it, I believe McCain understands the costs of war better than most, and though I don't really like him, I do trust him in that regard.

[skylark]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I believe McCain understands the costs of war better than most, and though I don't really like him, I do trust him in that regard.

You know, when push comes to shove I agree with McCain fans on this point. I'm still a little confused though why he wants to stay in Iraq. I kind of hope he is just saying that because he doesn't want to appear like he is undermining Bush.

Where I stray away from McCain the most is on other issues. Other than his undeniably impressive background and resume and his committment to campaign finance reform (its too bad he hasn't continued to fight this, though), I don't think he would be a good leader for other reasons. I doubt he would lead our country out of what seems like an inevitable recession and I doubt he sees the status quo of economic disparity and widening wealth gap a problem that needs fixing.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by skylark

You know, when push comes to shove I agree with McCain fans on this point. I'm still a little confused though why he wants to stay in Iraq. I kind of hope he is just saying that because he doesn't want to appear like he is undermining Bush.

Where I stray away from McCain the most is on other issues. Other than his undeniably impressive background and resume and his committment to campaign finance reform (its too bad he hasn't continued to fight this, though), I don't think he would be a good leader for other reasons. I doubt he would lead our country out of what seems like an inevitable recession and I doubt he sees the status quo of economic disparity and widening wealth gap a problem that needs fixing.

Haha, yeah I agree with him on (probably) what you don't, and dislike things like McCain Feingold

[nittanyalum]

For anyone concerned with how the final convention vote may come down on the Democratic side with the superdelegates possibly holding the decision in their hands, there is a petition from MoveOn that you can sign that says you want the superdelegates to vote the way the majority of the other elected delegates have gone. I'm not sure how much effect this will really have (and it seems like public pressure is already mounting so that it might go down that way anyway), but if you like petitions, you can find it here: http://pol.moveon.org/superdelegates/?r_by=12133-4252593-UqjSAe&rc=comment_forward

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

For anyone concerned with how the final convention vote may come down on the Democratic side with the superdelegates possibly holding the decision in their hands, there is a petition from MoveOn that you can sign that says you want the superdelegates to vote the way the majority of the other elected delegates have gone. I'm not sure how much effect this will really have (and it seems like public pressure is already mounting so that it might go down that way anyway), but if you like petitions, you can find it here: http://pol.moveon.org/superdelegates/?r_by=12133-4252593-UqjSAe&rc=comment_forward

This seems pretty meaningless - and, even more insidiously, this seems like tacit support for Obama on the part of MoveOn.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I happen to think MoveOn is one of the most worthless PACs in the history of dickfaces influencing government, but still - this is a really, REALLY transparent effort. Kind of puke-inducing, to be honest.

[nittanyalum]

^^^That's why I said "for anyone concerned" -- yes, I concur it's mainly Obama supporters that are concerned because Hillary still has more superdelegates pledged to her -- if you're not one of those concerned, feel free to ignore. I myself am still not 100% decided, so I'm not trying to tacitly or outright push either candidate, I just wanted to alert those who are sensitive to the issue that this "push" is going on out there.

Certainly didn't mean to make you lose your lunch, there, KSig. Apologies.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This seems pretty meaningless - and, even more insidiously, this seems like tacit support for Obama on the part of MoveOn.

Now, in the interest of full disclosure, I happen to think MoveOn is one of the most worthless PACs in the history of dickfaces influencing government, but still - this is a really, REALLY transparent effort. Kind of puke-inducing, to be honest.

Yep.

[scbelle]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This seems pretty meaningless - and, even more insidiously, this seems like tacit support for Obama on the part of MoveOn.

Well, they DID endorse him a couple of weeks ago...

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by skylark

You know, when push comes to shove I agree with McCain fans on this point. I'm still a little confused though why he wants to stay in Iraq. I kind of hope he is just saying that because he doesn't want to appear like he is undermining Bush.

Where I stray away from McCain the most is on other issues. Other than his undeniably impressive background and resume and his committment to campaign finance reform (its too bad he hasn't continued to fight this, though), I don't think he would be a good leader for other reasons. I doubt he would lead our country out of what seems like an inevitable recession and I doubt he sees the status quo of economic disparity and widening wealth gap a problem that needs fixing.

Without the USA Support, basicaly the Country will not only fall apart, the main enemy will take over.

There is enough of these fanatics who want to kill You/American people.

They are a relegious fanatical group on may sides and fight each other. Do you not understand that?

They preach The Koran and do other things. Oh, like kill people!

Okay, lets take the/our Troops out and see what happens.

911, and the bombings of the Trade Center, or the Barraks in Lebenon, or highjacking our airliners?

So, now, what is wrong with that picture?

Who owns the gas station you trade at? Who owns the motel you stay in?

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Who owns the gas station you trade at? Who owns the motel you stay in?

Nice xenophobic rant, Tom.

[UGAalum94]

Indians?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Without the USA Support, basicaly the Country will not only fall apart, the main enemy will take over.

There is enough of these fanatics who want to kill You/American people.

They are a relegious fanatical group on may sides and fight each other. Do you not understand that?

They preach The Koran and do other things. Oh, like kill people!

Okay, lets take the/our Troops out and see what happens.

911, and the bombings of the Trade Center, or the Barraks in Lebenon, or highjacking our airliners?

So, now, what is wrong with that picture?

Who owns the gas station you trade at? Who owns the motel you stay in?

Tom...what would you do if I told you I was Muslim?

W.W.T.E.D.?

Add that to the GC Dictionary.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

^^^That's why I said "for anyone concerned" -- yes, I concur it's mainly Obama supporters that are concerned because Hillary still has more superdelegates pledged to her -- if you're not one of those concerned, feel free to ignore. I myself am still not 100% decided, so I'm not trying to tacitly or outright push either candidate, I just wanted to alert those who are sensitive to the issue that this "push" is going on out there.

Certainly didn't mean to make you lose your lunch, there, KSig. Apologies.

Well, I didn't know this part:

Originally Posted by scbelle

Well, they DID endorse him a couple of weeks ago...

So it's not as bad as I thought - at least it's not under any sort of guise of indifference. Still, it's designed to look "neutral" to observers who have no affiliation or knowledge of MoveOn, almost as if it is intended to be linked to those without knowledge of MoveOn's agenda, and who may or may not understand the implication of their cry to be "democratic" in the nomination process.

I think it's shitty, lowbrow and cheesy - which is pretty much every prior reason why I've abhorred MoveOn.org in the past. As proof: if they openly support Obama, why doesn't it explain why this would be a good thing for Obama?

[nittanyalum]

I just ran across this picture and thought of this thread: