What makes Greek life "hot" in the south?

[oldu]

Until after World War II, almost every fraternity and sorority (including those founded in the south) was dominated by chapters and alumni from the north. The chapter houses in the south were pathetic compared to those at the large universities and private colleges in the north. Following the "melt-down" of the late 1960s that role began to reverse. Today those nice houses in the north are deteriorating and the grand new homes are being built in the south. My question, which has yet to be answered, is why? Surely a fraternity or sorority can fill the same need in the north that such a higher percentage of students in the south deem to be a benefit.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by oldu

Following the "melt-down" of the late 1960s that role began to reverse.

You call it a meltdown, we call it the civil rights movement.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

You call it a meltdown, we call it the civil rights movement.

I think he was talking about the war or something. He has referenced the late 1960s before and wasn't talking about the Civil Rights Movement.

The Civil Rights Movement obviously didn't have an impact on anyone or anything.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I think he was talking about the war or something. He has referenced the late 1960s before and wasn't talking about the Civil Rights Movement.

The Civil Rights Movement obviously didn't have an impact on anyone or anything.

LOL.

I think there were more than a few chapters at private colleges in the North that either turned in their charters or went local over white clauses.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

LOL.

I think there were more than a few chapters at private colleges in the North that either turned in their charters or went local over white clauses.

True, but given his other posts, I assume he was talking about the Vietnam War and the accompanying Question Authority/Down With Tradition/Never Trust Anyone Over 30 sentiments that caused a significant decline in Greekdom in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

True, but given his other posts, I assume he was talking about the Vietnam War and the accompanying Question Authority/Down With Tradition/Never Trust Anyone Over 30 sentiments that caused a significant decline in Greekdom in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Ehh. Overrated. There were still people joining fraternities and sororities, fraternities and sororities just became a different thing for different people (i.e. there were hippies in them). Plus, this really depends what schools you're talking about. Look at some of the smaller state schools in the late 60s and early 70s and you'll see fairly large chapters - because the people going there, for the first time, had the funds to afford it. My school chartered 4 Greek chapters in 1966-1967 (3 of which are still there) so obviously our system wasn't declining.

I just don't think "big membership and big new house" instantly equals "awesome Greek experience," so IMO, the whole discussion is flawed.

[banditone]

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Ehh. Overrated.

The point is that based on his other posts in other threads, I think when he said "meltdown," he was referring to anti-tradition student movement/mentality in general rather than to the civil rights movement. Whether you think he has correctly identified the effects that late 60s-early 70s student movement/mentality is a different discussion.

Originally Posted by 33girl

I just don't think "big membership and big new house" instantly equals "awesome Greek experience," so IMO, the whole discussion is flawed.

I agree completely.

[bowsandtoes]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I just don't think "big membership and big new house" instantly equals "awesome Greek experience," so IMO, the whole discussion is flawed.

I find it funny that so many people on this site feel this way. It seems the majority who do so are from the North, where small chapters and houses seem to be the norm.

Not to criticize those schools, but let me just explain how it is at Texas. The largest chapters tend to be the ones that have the most expensive dues. Even then, the number of men who want to join those chapters is so great that they are able to be extremely selective in who they take. This allows those houses to take pledges classes of 40-50, all of which are quality guys. With a chapter that size, and with dues that high, this means a lot of money for the chapter. More money means bigger nicer houses, huge parties, and a more notable presence on campus. With that presence comes recognition from the rest of the student body. Saying "I'm a Fiji/SAE/Sig Ep" carries a lot more weight than "oh ya I'm in Alpha Beta [insert random greek letter]". And of course, there's always the alumni factor. A chapters that's had a large presense on campus for decades will help much more than some guys who colonized a few years back and live in a converted duplex.


In the end, I'm not saying the small northern chapters aren't 'good' at what they do. I just think that the two different types of chapters we're discussing have different goals, and that should be taken into consideration.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

True, but given his other posts, I assume he was talking about the Vietnam War and the accompanying Question Authority/Down With Tradition/Never Trust Anyone Over 30 sentiments that caused a significant decline in Greekdom in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Interesting, because it was the late 60s early 70s during which BGLOs grew in leaps and bounds. New chapters we being chartered all over the place.

This whole thread is interesting to me and very informative. I will say that BGLOs are "hot" everywhere. Granted there are more chapters of orgs in the South, but that is due to the number of HBCUs located there.

BGLOs have always played a vital part in the Black community so knowledge and interest is not geographically skewed. Many of our leaders during the civil rights movement were member of BGLOs (which could partly explain the surge during that time.) I also think that our alumni(ae) structure plays a big part in the universal appeal, because we have never been thought of as just a collegiate activity. And did our Founders did not intend for that to be the case.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Interesting, because it was the late 60s early 70s during which BGLOs grew in leaps and bounds. New chapters we being chartered all over the place.

This whole thread is interesting to me and very informative. I will say that BGLOs are "hot" everywhere. Granted there are more chapters of orgs in the South, but that is due to the number of HBCUs located there.

BGLOs have always played a vital part in the Black community so knowledge and interest is not geographically skewed. Many of our leaders during the civil rights movement were member of BGLOs (which could partly explain the surge during that time.) I also think that our alumni(ae) structure plays a big part in the universal appeal, because we have never been thought of as just a collegiate activity. And did our Founders did not intend for that to be the case.

Yep and I touched on some of this in that "worst of times" thread.

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

As for the comments about Florida- you couldn't be more correct. The greek life at UCF, USF, FIU, etc. is comparable to that at northern colleges, Sigma Chi at USF being an exception.
I spent a lot of time in Michigan growing up and I can say that greek life is frowned upon there because it is viewed as a bunch of partiers with no ambition where as I was raised with the mentality of a fraternity being a great tool. If you want to network in college here you almost have to be in a fraternity. It's a system- to get a bid from a decent fraternity you have to be very sociable and to make it through pledgeship you have to be able to work as a team, essential skills for any career. My university president (Wetherell), governor (Crist), and president are all southerners and they're all greeks... its hard to paint us as unmotivated party animals with those kind of results.
"its not the grades you make, its the hands you shake."

Originally Posted by PhiGam

I said nothing of ambition and I have no idea what Theta Phi Alpha is.

I bolded that for you. I'm also sorry that you didn't bother to use Google.

Originally Posted by SECdomination

I don't think he was attacking Theta Phi Alpha- VandalSquirrel just gave a response that made her seem all victimized or something.

I am a victim, a victim of other people's ignorance and lack of research skills. But it is the hands you shake, not the grades you make.

[bejazd]

Originally Posted by oldu

Today those nice houses in the north are deteriorating and the grand new homes are being built in the south. My question, which has yet to be answered, is why? .

Is it because colleges in the South (public and private) are willing to provide land for GLOs to build on? They obviously see that social orgs are a draw for students. I see a lot of articles out here about growing campuses that want to add Greek life because they know that it is a draw for some students, but I doubt we'll ever see another public campus in Calif providing land for building Greek housing. (The newest on campus Greek housing I know of is at UC Irvine. and that's unusual because most Greek housing in CA is privately owned. off campus.) The cost of the land is astronomical compared to the cost of building a house. So I don't know if we'll ever see any new Greek housing here, despite rising enrollments and growth in membership, esp at schools like CSULB, SDSU, UCSB etc.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Is it because colleges in the South (public and private) are willing to provide land for GLOs to build on? They obviously see that social orgs are a draw for students. I see a lot of articles out here about growing campuses that want to add Greek life because they know that it is a draw for some students, but I doubt we'll ever see another public campus in Calif providing land for building Greek housing. (The newest on campus Greek housing I know of is at UC Irvine. and that's unusual because most Greek housing in CA is privately owned. off campus.) The cost of the land is astronomical compared to the cost of building a house. So I don't know if we'll ever see any new Greek housing here, despite rising enrollments and growth in membership, esp at schools like CSULB, SDSU, UCSB etc.

While I agree the whole basis of this question/argument is flawed, I can see that the above may be a good point about housing for greeks in the north. There just isn't a lot of room for new building around a lot of the big schools up north, so building a "grand" new fraternity or sorority house just may not be possible space- (or zoning) wise. I remember at Penn State, where sororities are in the dorms, space was already so tight that when they brought new chapters on campus, they had to stick them up in East Halls. The FRESHMAN dorms -- agh!!

[honeychile]

For some reason, I can't quote today, but my own take:

-First of all, Georgia Wesleyan College for Females (now Georgia Wesleyan) was the first college in the US which even allowed women to earn a degree, period. So, of course the first two sororities were founded there, in the South. I highly doubt that the "control" of either ADPi or Phi Mu was ever in the North, even if ADPi had a few years of a national headquarters in Iowa. The influence was always Southern in tradition.

-For the most part, unless one's a legacy, more youngsters hear about Greek life in the South prior to middle school, as opposed to in the North, where few non-legacies hear about it until high school or even college. A few of the teachers in our elementary school were Southern Greeks and told us all about it; my sixth grade teacher made us memorize the Greek alphabet frontwards and backwards! There could have been Greeks who went to school in the North, I just never heard about them.

-I graduated from high school with over 700 people. The one reunion I went to, the Greeks seemed to hang together, and it was a goodly number of the formerly college prep/advanced placement classes. Notice that I don't mention the, "oh, I decided to go to college" people" - it was mostly those who really planned it out.

-I'm still not wild about the 6-8 week new member period. I can understand it for individual GLO purposes, but I think the Panhellenic concept gets lost. Does any school still have Junior Panhel?