Student asking for a snow day snowballs into something bigger

[alum]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Wow. Just, wow.

Let me clarify. From what I've seen as a parent and as a college administrator is that immigrant families and the families with fewer financial resources are more reluctant to fight with a school administrator than those families who have more resources or who are US-born citizens.

I believe that many immigrants at Eagle View ES would hesitate to confront Mrs. Tistadt if she was rude to their kids or to them. She would be able to get away with a certain amount of disrespect towards the students and their parents because there would be no complaints. Now if the immigrant family was at Haycock or any other McLean/Langley feeder (which I would infer would need a certain level of income to live in those pyramids), I think it would be a different story. The kids and their parents are treated with respect at these schools and those families have no hesitation complaining about anything whatsoever that doesn't go their way.


Mrs. Tistadt overstepped her bounds and at a minimum, needs to be put on administrative leave and to enroll in anger management classes.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by alum

Let me clarify. From what I've seen as a parent and as a college administrator is that immigrant families and the families with fewer financial resources are more hesitant to fight with a school administrator than those families who have more resources or who are US-born citizens.

I believe that many immigrants at Eagle View ES would hesitate to confront Mrs. Tistadt if she was rude to their kids or to them. She would be able to get away with a certain amount of disrespect towards the students and their parents because there would be no complaints. Now if the immigrant family was at Haycock or any other McLean/Langley feeder (which I would infer would need a certain level of income to live in those pyramids), I think it would be a different story. The kids and their parents are treated with respect at these schools and those families have no hesitation complaining about anything whatsoever that doesn't go their way.


Mrs. Tistadt overstepped her bounds and at a minimum, needs to be put on administrative leave and to enroll in anger management classes.

Return Call rehab.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

Originally Posted by alum

Let me clarify. From what I've seen as a parent and as a college administrator is that immigrant families and the families with fewer financial resources are more reluctant to fight with a school administrator than those families who have more resources or who are US-born citizens.

I believe that many immigrants at Eagle View ES would hesitate to confront Mrs. Tistadt if she was rude to their kids or to them. She would be able to get away with a certain amount of disrespect towards the students and their parents because there would be no complaints. Now if the immigrant family was at Haycock or any other McLean/Langley feeder (which I would infer would need a certain level of income to live in those pyramids), I think it would be a different story. The kids and their parents are treated with respect at these schools and those families have no hesitation complaining about anything whatsoever that doesn't go their way.


Mrs. Tistadt overstepped her bounds and at a minimum, needs to be put on administrative leave and to enroll in anger management classes.

I feel bad for her. She's probably tired of people thinking they have the right to access her husband 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I see how it is for my mom as a teacher. Parents with failing kids are insisting that she stay after school to tutor them. WHY? The school already offers tutoring for all students and the parents never show any interest in their own kids. My mom has the 4 of us at home and after work is done she doesn't need to deal with their brats, they (as parents) do. People love to blame and harass others with their problems nowadays. That kid should have expressed his concern to his parent. They have the authority to let him stay home. Obviously they weren't and he should have just went to school instead of calling this poor woman in her home looking for her husband like he owes every Tom, Dick, and Harry something. Like she says in her rant, he does his job. Enough is enough. There are some boundaries that should just not be crossed. Her husband wasn't even at home. She doesn't need an anger management class, she needs for people to stop treating her husband like public property and more like a human being. It seems as if he doesn't have a lot of time to spend it with her.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I feel bad for her. She's probably tired of people thinking they have the right to access her husband 24 hours a day 7 days a week. I see how it is for my mom as a teacher. Parents with failing kids are insisting that she stay after school to tutor them. WHY? The school already offers tutoring for all students and the parents never show any interest in their own kids. My mom has the 4 of us at home and after work is done she doesn't need to deal with their brats, they (as parents) do. People love to blame and harass others with their problems nowadays. That kid should have expressed his concern to his parent. They have the authority to let him stay home. Obviously they weren't and he should have just went to school instead of calling this poor woman in her home looking for her husband like he owes every Tom, Dick, and Harry something. Like she says in her rant, he does his job. Enough is enough. There are some boundaries that should just not be crossed. Her husband wasn't even at home. She doesn't need an anger management class, she needs for people to stop treating her husband like public property and more like a human being. It seems as if he doesn't have a lot of time to spend it with her.

I had a funny and simple thought this morning how she could have handled it better.

Instead of addressing him...why didn't she call and speak to his parents directly?

When you are dealing with kids you know they are prone to doing devious things...

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by alum

...families with fewer financial resources are more reluctant to fight with a school administrator than those families who have more resources or who are US-born citizens.

I believe that many immigrants at Eagle View ES would hesitate to confront Mrs. Tistadt if she was rude to their kids or to them. She would be able to get away with a certain amount of disrespect towards the students and their parents because there would be no complaints.

Sorry for cutting down your post, but I wanted to highlight this. I think that poorer or less-educated families, especially if they are New Americans, respect teachers' authority so much that they wouldn't even think of questioning a teacher's decision unless it was blaringly wrong. It's not even that the parents are reluctant to complain--it just wouldn't even come up.

Meanwhile, in an affluent school, the parents and students may see the teachers as just another service provider. Yeah, they're professionals--but so are the vast majority of the parents at the school. Just like how you'd voice your complaints about a bad plumbing job, upper middle-class American parents are more willing to complain about a teacher's actions.

FWIW, I think this woman is nutz.

[UGAalum94]

The woman was a jerk, and I think she acted badly.

But there's no way that I think she should be punished by the district. She wasn't acting as a school official at the time of the call; she was acting as the wife who took a phone call at home and was angry about it.

She didn't use any of the schools' time or resources and her call didn't reflect an action by the district or relaying official information from the district. Her call relayed the personal message of "get over yourself and quit calling here."

Now, again, I think she should have been smarter and I think it would be wise for her to apologize to the kid for the insulting language in the call.

But no way is punishing people for a lack of professionalism in the calls they take at home justified since there was nothing professional about the call in the first place.

If she acts this way at work, bust her for that, not for how she acts at home.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

The woman was a jerk, and I think she acted badly.

But there's no way that I think she should be punished by the district. She wasn't acting as a school official at the time of the call; she was acting as the wife who took a phone call at home and was angry about it.

She didn't use any of the schools' time or resources and her call didn't reflect an action by the district or relaying official information from the district. Her call relayed the personal message of "get over yourself and quit calling here."

Now, again, I think she should have been smarter and I think it would be wise for her to apologize to the kid for the insulting language in the call.

But no way is punishing people for a lack of professionalism in the calls they take at home justified since there was nothing professional about the call in the first place.

If she acts this way at work, bust her for that, not for how she acts at home.

I disagree completely - if teachers want to be treated as professionals, they must act as professionals at all times. Attorneys are subject to discipline from their respective bar associations for "off-duty" actions, and many other professions have similar codes of conduct.

There is indeed something "professional" about the initial call - the kid was asking an (apparently) earnest question that was well within the job guidelines for the guy he called. The wife chose to make a scene, even though it was completely outside of her "authority" or responsibility.

[RACooper]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

There is indeed something "professional" about the initial call - the kid was asking an (apparently) earnest question that was well within the job guidelines for the guy he called.

... and we know this how? All that is out there is the returned call not the original one (or for that matter many messages or calls there might have been), all we have is the kid's word and recorded response with nothing from the spouse... and a spouse that likely for legal or disciplinary reasons can't discuss her "side" - and based on the kid's reaction to that call I don't really see much support for his original call being "professional" or "earnest".

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I disagree completely - if teachers want to be treated as professionals, they must act as professionals at all times. Attorneys are subject to discipline from their respective bar associations for "off-duty" actions, and many other professions have similar codes of conduct.

There is indeed something "professional" about the initial call - the kid was asking an (apparently) earnest question that was well within the job guidelines for the guy he called. The wife chose to make a scene, even though it was completely outside of her "authority" or responsibility.

Right, but does your code of conduct cover responding rudely on your home phone or face sanctions from the bar? I doubt it. Sure if the professional organization established a pattern of bad behavior the bar or professional organization might take action, but I really doubt you'd be suspended for treating someone who called you at home rudely. As a matter of fact, I suspect there are very few things that aren't actually criminal or expressly spelled out by a code that the Bar would address with you.

Again, I don't think what the women did was a good idea, and I agree that you're better off acting professionally any time you might be observed by member of the public. But I don't think she should face disciplinary actions for responding to a phone call at home in a rude, but not criminal or obscene, way. (If she had threatened the kid or something similar, then I'd feel different, but just something along the lines of "quit being a brat," nope.)

The kid should not have called the guy at home. If he sincerely wanted a professional response to his question, he should have pursued it within appropriate and professional channels. Calling the guy's house was out of line. I wouldn't call it harassment, but it shouldn't become acceptable.

[UGAalum94]

I think the public does have a right to ask questions of public officials, but that you need to do it at appropriate times. If the guy really wasn't calling him back (and personally, I think 24 hours is probably a better window to judge rather than the impression that I have that the kids called him at his office at lunch and then called him during the same lunch hour at home), then the kid could have called someone else in the school board chain of command or, better yet, get on the agenda at the next school board meeting to address it.

I don't think that you can really expect the guy to field every phone call from every kid about snow days, especially in a district as heavily populated as Fairfax Co.

[RACooper]

Alright just a couple of questions to help me get a handle on why the kid was even asking.

- What is the average snow-fall hitting the region that results in a "Snow Day"?

- Is 3 inches really that bad on the roads in Fairfax? (ie. people not knowing how to drive, no snow tires, etc.)

- does anyone know what the time-frame for the calls to the office and then the call to the house?


PS> As I write this here in Calgary where I'm visiting it's day two of the -60°F to -65°F days (including wind-chill)... and the schools that are cancelled are mainly because the buses won't start, or the in areas in which the kids might have to wait more than 20 minutes for the bus.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by alum

Let me clarify. From what I've seen as a parent and as a college administrator is that immigrant families and the families with fewer financial resources are more reluctant to fight with a school administrator than those families who have more resources or who are US-born citizens.

I believe that many immigrants at Eagle View ES would hesitate to confront Mrs. Tistadt if she was rude to their kids or to them. She would be able to get away with a certain amount of disrespect towards the students and their parents because there would be no complaints. Now if the immigrant family was at Haycock or any other McLean/Langley feeder (which I would infer would need a certain level of income to live in those pyramids), I think it would be a different story. The kids and their parents are treated with respect at these schools and those families have no hesitation complaining about anything whatsoever that doesn't go their way.


Mrs. Tistadt overstepped her bounds and at a minimum, needs to be put on administrative leave and to enroll in anger management classes.

Although I completely disagree with your conclusion to punish her, I'm afraid you are right about the standards school personnel are held to.

My opinion does differ about lower SES families a little; my experience in Georgia is that some of the very worst kids and parents about blowing up any perceived slight or disrespect (much less the kind of insults here) into a huge deal are the kids at the bottom of the SES ladder. On some level, it makes sense they'd be sensitive to disrespect in a culture that values material success so much, no doubt, but I see the greatest amount of "you can't make me do that; you can't tell me what to do; you can't talk to me that way" attitude from lower SES kids, even when what's been said or asked is really just standard protocol for the school and is handled politely. (For example, we're supposed to take up cell phones if we see the kids using them and turn them into the front office to be picked up by parents.)

The richer kids are more likely to superficially play the game and are more manipulative, in my experience.

But as far as school staff, richer schools often have a surplus of applicants and if you are a jerk to the kids or parents, they will run you off. At a harder to staff school, they might be more disposed to let more go. I think that's a sad reality.