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  #16  
Old 01-03-2008, 03:32 PM
ZTABullwinkle ZTABullwinkle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ForeverRoses View Post
They hired the guy that defended Scott Peterson? Yeah, that one didn't exactly go Scott's way.

And I agree about the taunting. If they were taunting the tiger, then they do owe the zoo a new one. Who goes to the zoo to taunt animals anyway?
Why do I have a feeling that the lawyer offered his services to them. He is all about being a media lawyer! Has anyone heard what he said about the incident yesterday to the media?

High-profile lawyer representing the tiger attack victims
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  #17  
Old 01-03-2008, 06:46 PM
SigKapAngel767 SigKapAngel767 is offline
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Animals have instincts. That animal, most likely, INSTINCTIVELY protected itself. It doesn't look good for those two boys...
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  #18  
Old 01-03-2008, 07:00 PM
sageofages sageofages is offline
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Seriously....If I were an administrator/board member/lawyer for this zoo, I would say..."bring it on" to any sort of lawsuit.

This zoo has been around for how long and no other big cat has gotten out...now a witness talks about their taunting activities toward the animal...and these guys are there after hours.

The zoo should definitely be filing a suit against the families for all sorts of criminal actions (tresspassing, criminal mischief, etc) and civil litigation for the loss of an important animal.
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  #19  
Old 01-03-2008, 09:19 PM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Originally Posted by sageofages View Post
Seriously....If I were an administrator/board member/lawyer for this zoo, I would say..."bring it on" to any sort of lawsuit.

This zoo has been around for how long and no other big cat has gotten out...now a witness talks about their taunting activities toward the animal...and these guys are there after hours.

The zoo should definitely be filing a suit against the families for all sorts of criminal actions (tresspassing, criminal mischief, etc) and civil litigation for the loss of an important animal.
They weren't there after hours; it was around closing time...they had been at the zoo all afternoon according to what I read. I'm guessing the zoo just wasn't very busy at around 5pm on Christmas day.

As for whether the boys are liable for the death of the tiger if they taunted her, I don't think they'll be held accountable for that. It's the zoo's responsibility to protect its visitors, especially from its animals. Haven't you all ever been to a zoo? Half the kids there could be considered as "taunting" the animals. Waving to a tiger and yelling its name could be considered taunting, and I see kids do that all the time at the zoo. The tiger's wall wasn't high enough, so she apparently jumped out; really, whatever the reason for how she got out, it's the zoo's liability.
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  #20  
Old 01-04-2008, 01:46 AM
macallan25 macallan25 is offline
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Was just watching Jack Hanna on TV talk about this. I believe he said something like 2.5 billion people have walked through US zoos in some time frame (don't remember the exact years he used) with none of them getting hurt. The tiger area at the zoo in question had the same structure for 30+ years without a single, solitary incident.

Sorry, I just don't believe at all that this was some random, sporadic deal and that it is the zoo's fault.
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  #21  
Old 01-04-2008, 04:42 PM
ForeverRoses ForeverRoses is offline
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Originally Posted by macallan25 View Post
Was just watching Jack Hanna on TV talk about this. I believe he said something like 2.5 billion people have walked through US zoos in some time frame (don't remember the exact years he used) with none of them getting hurt. The tiger area at the zoo in question had the same structure for 30+ years without a single, solitary incident.

Sorry, I just don't believe at all that this was some random, sporadic deal and that it is the zoo's fault.
My favorite Jack Hanna quote in all of this is "A wild animal is like a loaded weapon".

An dto think that the last time I went to the zoo all I saw was a male giraffe trying to mate with a female giraffe. Try and explain what was going on to a five-year old-- "Mommy why is that giraffe jumping on the other one's back??"
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  #22  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:43 PM
AOII_LB93 AOII_LB93 is offline
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So they were drunk and high....

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22719922/

Nice...I hope the zoo sues and gets a new tiger. Dumbasses.
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  #23  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:47 PM
BetteDavisEyes BetteDavisEyes is offline
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What a bunch of dumbasses. You reap what you sow.
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  #24  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:51 PM
NinjaPoodle NinjaPoodle is offline
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What a bunch of dumbasses. You reap what you sow.
Yes, and 1 person is dead because of it.
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  #25  
Old 01-18-2008, 01:54 PM
NinjaPoodle NinjaPoodle is offline
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNEIUH4B9.DTL

Mauling survivor said he yelled at tiger
Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer

01-17) 18:05 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- One of the two survivors of the San Francisco Zoo tiger attack that left a 17-year-old dead told the victim's father that the three had yelled and waved at the animal while standing atop the railing of the tiger's exhibit, police said in court documents filed Thursday.

Paul Dhaliwal, 19, denied throwing anything into the enclosure or otherwise antagonizing the animal, according to an account contained in police investigators' request for a search warrant in connection with the Christmas Day attack that killed Carlos Sousa Jr. of San Jose.

Police armed with the warrant and seeking evidence that the men had taunted the tiger searched the 2002 BMW belonging to Dhaliwal's 23-year-old brother, Kulbir, on Wednesday. They also reviewed the brothers' cell phones for any photos they might have taken before the tiger attacked.

Police said they had recovered messages and images but apparently nothing incriminating in connection with the tiger attack. Investigators seized a small amount of marijuana as well as a partially filled bottle of Grey Goose vodka from the car, according to the inventory that police submitted from the search.

They also found a kit commonly used to defeat drug testing, which included a vial of unisex synthetic urine, police said. Paul Dhaliwal was on probation stemming from a drunken driving incident that occurred before the attack.

The search warrant affidavit was prepared Tuesday by police Inspector Valerie Matthews, the lead investigator in the case, and was filed in San Francisco Superior Court late Thursday.

It cites multiple reports of a group of young men taunting animals at the zoo as basis for a court to grant police the right to search the cell phones and BMW, where police said they had seen the partially full bottle vodka bottle in the front passenger seat.

Both Dhaliwal brothers were hospitalized with head wounds after the maulings. Matthews said in the warrant application that Paul Dhaliwal's blood alcohol level had been measured after the attack at 0.16 percent, twice the legal level for drunkenness. She did not indicate exactly when the test had been conducted.

Kulbir Dhaliwal's blood alcohol level was 0.04 percent, and Sousa's was 0.02 percent, Matthews said.

All three also had marijuana in their systems, Matthews said. The drug can stay in blood for several days, but Kulbir Dhaliwal told police that the three had smoked marijuana and had each had "a couple shots of vodka" Christmas Day before leaving the brothers' home in San Jose, the affidavit said.

Sousa's father, Carlos Sousa Sr., is quoted in the affidavit as saying he spoke by telephone with Paul Dhaliwal after the attack. Sousa Sr. declined to comment Thursday.

According to the elder Sousa's account to police, Dhaliwal told him that he, his brother and the younger Sousa had been "waving their hands and yelling at the tiger" just before the animal bounded up a 12 1/2-foot wall from its dry moat and attacked them.

Paul Dhaliwal - referred to in affidavit by his formal name, Amritpal - "said the three of them were standing on the railing looking at the tiger," Sousa told police.

The 3-foot-tall metal railing is a few feet from the edge of the tiger moat.

Dhaliwal told Sousa that "when they got down they heard a noise in the bushes, and the tiger was jumping out of the bushes" on Paul Dhaliwal, the affidavit said.

"Sousa Sr. said he asked Amritpal Dhaliwal if they were dangling their legs, or throwing things taunting the tiger," the affidavit said. "Sousa Sr. said Amritpal Dhaliwal said they did not."

Matthews said police had found a partial shoe print on top of the railing and concluded that it matched a shoe worn by Paul Dhaliwal.

"This shoe print is a possible indication of Amritpal Dhaliwal standing on the railing to photo, taunt, view or tease the tiger," Matthews said in the affidavit.

Earlier this month, the younger Sousa's mother, Marilza Sousa, said in an interview that Paul Dhaliwal had told her, "We didn't do nothing. We were just normal kids in the zoo."

She added, "That's what happened - just dancing, talking, laughing like normal kids."

It is unclear what Paul Dhaliwal told police as there is no summary of his account in the search warrant affidavit. Police have said they interviewed both brothers.

Paul Dhaliwal apparently was reluctant to talk immediately after the attack, according to Matthews' affidavit.

One of the paramedics who rode with him in an ambulance to San Francisco General Hospital told police she had tried to interview him but that he had said only, "I don't want anyone to know," Matthews wrote.

When the unidentified paramedic persisted, Dhaliwal told her to "just shut up," the affidavit said.

He also denied having a cell phone after first asking the paramedic if she wanted his phone number and laughing, the affidavit said.

The Dhaliwal brothers have hired an attorney, Mark Geragos, who did not return a call Thursday.

Last week, the San Francisco city attorney referred to the police investigation of the attack as inactive. Now, the police search indicates that investigators believe the young men taunted the tiger, a misdemeanor. In seeking the warrant, police said they were investigating whether an unspecified felony had been committed.

"As a result of this investigation, (police believe) that the tiger may have been taunted/agitated by its eventual victims," Matthews wrote in the affidavit. Police believe that "this factor contributed to the tiger escaping from its enclosure and attacking its victims," she said.

An autopsy conducted by a zoo veterinarian on the Siberian tiger after police shot it to death showed that the animal had been "very determined to get out," Matthews said. Its claws were broken and splintered by clambering up the concrete moat wall, Matthews quoted the veterinarian as saying.

"This behavior may be consistent with a tiger that has been agitated and/or taunted," Matthews said.

Police found a pine cone and a tree branch in the tiger's outdoor grotto when they searched it soon after the attack, but Matthews said investigators could not determine how long those items had been there, because the zoo's operations director, Jesse Vargas, "told me that they could not answer any questions regarding the tiger and/or the tiger exhibit per their attorney's request."

Sam Singer, a spokesman for the zoo, has said Vargas merely wanted to have attorneys present during any questioning related to the tiger attack. He denied that Vargas or any other zoo official had refused to cooperate with police.


E-mail Jaxon Van Derbeken at jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com


This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle
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  #26  
Old 01-18-2008, 02:06 PM
DaemonSeid DaemonSeid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle View Post
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNEIUH4B9.DTL

Mauling survivor said he yelled at tiger
Jaxon Van Derbeken, Chronicle Staff Writer

01-17) 18:05 PST SAN FRANCISCO -- One of the two survivors of the San Francisco Zoo tiger attack that left a 17-year-old dead told the victim's father that the three had yelled and waved at the animal while standing atop the railing of the tiger's exhibit, police said in court documents filed Thursday.

Paul Dhaliwal, 19, denied throwing anything into the enclosure or otherwise antagonizing the animal, according to an account contained in police investigators' request for a search warrant in connection with the Christmas Day attack that killed Carlos Sousa Jr. of San Jose.

Police armed with the warrant and seeking evidence that the men had taunted the tiger searched the 2002 BMW belonging to Dhaliwal's 23-year-old brother, Kulbir, on Wednesday. They also reviewed the brothers' cell phones for any photos they might have taken before the tiger attacked.

Police said they had recovered messages and images but apparently nothing incriminating in connection with the tiger attack. Investigators seized a small amount of marijuana as well as a partially filled bottle of Grey Goose vodka from the car, according to the inventory that police submitted from the search.

They also found a kit commonly used to defeat drug testing, which included a vial of unisex synthetic urine, police said. Paul Dhaliwal was on probation stemming from a drunken driving incident that occurred before the attack.

The search warrant affidavit was prepared Tuesday by police Inspector Valerie Matthews, the lead investigator in the case, and was filed in San Francisco Superior Court late Thursday.

It cites multiple reports of a group of young men taunting animals at the zoo as basis for a court to grant police the right to search the cell phones and BMW, where police said they had seen the partially full bottle vodka bottle in the front passenger seat.

Both Dhaliwal brothers were hospitalized with head wounds after the maulings. Matthews said in the warrant application that Paul Dhaliwal's blood alcohol level had been measured after the attack at 0.16 percent, twice the legal level for drunkenness. She did not indicate exactly when the test had been conducted.

Kulbir Dhaliwal's blood alcohol level was 0.04 percent, and Sousa's was 0.02 percent, Matthews said.

All three also had marijuana in their systems, Matthews said. The drug can stay in blood for several days, but Kulbir Dhaliwal told police that the three had smoked marijuana and had each had "a couple shots of vodka" Christmas Day before leaving the brothers' home in San Jose, the affidavit said.

Sousa's father, Carlos Sousa Sr., is quoted in the affidavit as saying he spoke by telephone with Paul Dhaliwal after the attack. Sousa Sr. declined to comment Thursday.

According to the elder Sousa's account to police, Dhaliwal told him that he, his brother and the younger Sousa had been "waving their hands and yelling at the tiger" just before the animal bounded up a 12 1/2-foot wall from its dry moat and attacked them.

Paul Dhaliwal - referred to in affidavit by his formal name, Amritpal - "said the three of them were standing on the railing looking at the tiger," Sousa told police.

The 3-foot-tall metal railing is a few feet from the edge of the tiger moat.

Dhaliwal told Sousa that "when they got down they heard a noise in the bushes, and the tiger was jumping out of the bushes" on Paul Dhaliwal, the affidavit said.

"Sousa Sr. said he asked Amritpal Dhaliwal if they were dangling their legs, or throwing things taunting the tiger," the affidavit said. "Sousa Sr. said Amritpal Dhaliwal said they did not."

Matthews said police had found a partial shoe print on top of the railing and concluded that it matched a shoe worn by Paul Dhaliwal.

"This shoe print is a possible indication of Amritpal Dhaliwal standing on the railing to photo, taunt, view or tease the tiger," Matthews said in the affidavit.

Earlier this month, the younger Sousa's mother, Marilza Sousa, said in an interview that Paul Dhaliwal had told her, "We didn't do nothing. We were just normal kids in the zoo."

She added, "That's what happened - just dancing, talking, laughing like normal kids."

It is unclear what Paul Dhaliwal told police as there is no summary of his account in the search warrant affidavit. Police have said they interviewed both brothers.

Paul Dhaliwal apparently was reluctant to talk immediately after the attack, according to Matthews' affidavit.

One of the paramedics who rode with him in an ambulance to San Francisco General Hospital told police she had tried to interview him but that he had said only, "I don't want anyone to know," Matthews wrote.

When the unidentified paramedic persisted, Dhaliwal told her to "just shut up," the affidavit said.

He also denied having a cell phone after first asking the paramedic if she wanted his phone number and laughing, the affidavit said.

The Dhaliwal brothers have hired an attorney, Mark Geragos, who did not return a call Thursday.

Last week, the San Francisco city attorney referred to the police investigation of the attack as inactive. Now, the police search indicates that investigators believe the young men taunted the tiger, a misdemeanor. In seeking the warrant, police said they were investigating whether an unspecified felony had been committed.

"As a result of this investigation, (police believe) that the tiger may have been taunted/agitated by its eventual victims," Matthews wrote in the affidavit. Police believe that "this factor contributed to the tiger escaping from its enclosure and attacking its victims," she said.

An autopsy conducted by a zoo veterinarian on the Siberian tiger after police shot it to death showed that the animal had been "very determined to get out," Matthews said. Its claws were broken and splintered by clambering up the concrete moat wall, Matthews quoted the veterinarian as saying.

"This behavior may be consistent with a tiger that has been agitated and/or taunted," Matthews said.

Police found a pine cone and a tree branch in the tiger's outdoor grotto when they searched it soon after the attack, but Matthews said investigators could not determine how long those items had been there, because the zoo's operations director, Jesse Vargas, "told me that they could not answer any questions regarding the tiger and/or the tiger exhibit per their attorney's request."

Sam Singer, a spokesman for the zoo, has said Vargas merely wanted to have attorneys present during any questioning related to the tiger attack. He denied that Vargas or any other zoo official had refused to cooperate with police.


E-mail Jaxon Van Derbeken at jvanderbeken@sfchronicle.com


This article appeared on page A - 1 of the San Francisco Chronicle
dumb.asses.
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  #27  
Old 01-18-2008, 03:05 PM
AGDee AGDee is offline
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While I think they were idiots for agitating a tiger, I still think that it's the zoo's responsibility to ensure that the tiger can't get out, no matter how agitated it is.
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  #28  
Old 01-18-2008, 06:51 PM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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While I think they were idiots for agitating a tiger, I still think that it's the zoo's responsibility to ensure that the tiger can't get out, no matter how agitated it is.
I agree. I also stand by what I said earlier: that most of what people do at the zoo could be seen as "taunting" or "agitating" according to what these kids said they did. Most kids I see at the zoo are waving at animals or shouting out things like, "HI TIGER!" - sometimes at the encouragement of their parents. People don't think of it as taunting then, so why is it suddenly bad now? The zoo has a responsibility to reasonably protect people on its property from what people would consider harmful. And I think it goes without saying that people assume a zoo has taken the steps necessary to keep its dangerous animals away from the visitors; if they didn't think so, they wouldn't go!
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  #29  
Old 01-18-2008, 11:04 PM
RACooper RACooper is offline
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Sorry PeppyGPhiB but I have to disagree here because of one important bit mentioned in the article - the fact that the "tools" in question and the evidence shows that they where both in violation of the Zoo's safety warnings (by standing on the railing), and that this also suggests that they were doing far more than "waving at it" or saying "Hi, Tiger"... I'm pretty confident that they were baiting the tiger by dangling their legs or something in stupid drunken/high bravado - and the fact that the tiger was pissed off or agitated enough that it shredded it's claws getting out at them sorta backs that up I think... or shows evidence that the tiger made more than one leap and claw at the wall for some reason (looking at the claws I mean).
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  #30  
Old 01-19-2008, 02:25 AM
PeppyGPhiB PeppyGPhiB is offline
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Is it wrong that the living thing I feel the most sympathy for in this whole story is the tiger?
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