American Women and Relationships?

[James]

Some background:

Someone I had met at work had gotten married to this woman from Russia that he had been a sort of pen pal with. And I remembered that another guy I knew had been on vacation in Russia and did the same thing.

And then I recalled yet another conversation (this is a seperate thing) with a guy that was saying they were arranging some marriages where the man would bring the woman over and be married for 2 years for a great deal of money. And that the man would decline the money or make some spliiting arrangement because he wanted to stay married.

The two guys I first mentioned are good looking guys in good physical shape (i.e. they train a lot) and are reasonably successful in their fields. A good catch you would think, and they did indeed date a lot. Neither had ever been married, had no children and are in their 30's.

In conversations with these guys they say they prefer the foreign culture to Americanized women because they seem to be more famlily orientated with better relationship skills. And cited the lack of a lot of these skills as the reason why dating Americanized women is hard.

I say Americanized menaing women that have embraced mainstream American vlaues and behaviors.

This has been echoed by other men that I have talked to who also believe this.

So I was wondering, especially from some of the ladies that have some trans generational experience, if they have noticed that relationship skills are on a decline among females?

We'll leave men out of it this time lol.

Needless to say neither man mentioned above was very popular with a lot of American women when they came back.

[twinstars]

Would you specify what you mean by "relationship skills"? What exactly are American women lacking? What don't they do that foreigners ARE doing?

My initial thought... Maybe foreign women are more inclined to defer to men (are willing to be the submissive partner and let the guy make decisions/call shots) .... Maybe they are more likely to be comfortable and satisfied being "professional housewives" because of the cultures they come from.

[James]

Well the women seem to work, both over there and here and come from parts of the world that have no where near our standard of living.

Maybe its an intangible? Less Game playing? Less baggage or issues?

They say the women are strongwilled. *shrug*

I guess I'll have to date more overseas to find some empirical evidence for yall . .. I'll do it just for GC .

But seriously, if there has ben a change in the last few decades will that mean that more American men will be looking for more foreign brides? Or Culturally purer americans?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Clarence

you should treat a man like it says in the bible.

Genesis 19:33

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Genesis 19:33

and when I read it

[33girl]

Originally Posted by RU OX Alum

and when I read it

Just to clarify, this is not what the 33 in my username represents. LOL EWWWWWWW

[RxyChrldr]

James, I think perhaps women in the US today are more career-oriented in the past, and this may attribute to their "lack of relationship skills" as you so put it..or that they sometimes don't have a relationship as priority #1.

If we think back to the "traditional" American dream (circa 1950) it would probably be that common nuclear family..i.e., having a husband, wife, 2 kids, and a dog in a nice little white picket-fenced house and 2 cars. The shift towards present day goals is more "success" oriented, being well off and later on being able to provide for a family. I know for a lot of girls my age, career/success is priority one, then starting a family so that we're stable and able to provide for ourselves, not be dependent on a man/relationship. I know I most definitely plan to be graduated with college before marriage, and be stable in my career before bringing children into the world. Relationships are *not* my number one priority.

Just my 2 cents

[carnation]

In my ESL class, there were women from all over the world who had come here to be married to strangers. Most of the women had been professionals in their countries and wanted to leave their countries for various reasons. The Colombian wanted to escape the violence there, one Chinese woman vowed she'd get out when her mother was forced to have an abortion, another Chinese woman was tired of the living conditions there...it varied greatly for all of them.

The American men that they married had never been married and though they were nice, were not the kind who would exactly be hot items on the marriage market. All were kind to their wives and it seemed as if the husbands and wives saw the marriages as a win-win deal where each person got something he or she really wanted.

In Georgia, we see this in reverse too...there are a lot of Hispanic men who marry American women just to get their citizenship more easily. Nine times out of ten, the women are really trashy, the type who look 60 years old at the age of 30. There are a lot of little half-Hispanic kids running around who I really feel sorry for because often the dads run off after they get their citizenship and these children who are usually Hispanic-looking are left in these crummy trailer parks with moms who just married the dads to have a husband. After that, the moms really resent the kids and what we're getting in the schools are tons of disturbed kids. The county south of here is going berserk.

I could not tell you how many birth certificates I've translated for Hispanic guys who are marrying these awful women. You ought to hear the women: "Yeah, Jo-say and me, we just want to git married now. I cain't talk none of that Spanish but his friend says he really loves me."

[Boodleboy322]

Based on the context of this I believe that you are referring to foreigners from Mexico or Latin America. "Hispanic" doesn't necessarily mean that you are not a US citizen. I know of many successful "Hispanic" men & women in all walks of life that are 100% American. Some of these folks don't even speak Spanish.

Originally Posted by carnation

In Georgia, we see this in reverse too...there are a lot of Hispanic men who marry American women just to get their citizenship more easily. Nine times out of ten, the women are really trashy, the type who look 60 years old at the age of 30. There are a lot of little half-Hispanic kids running around who I really feel sorry for because often the dads run off after they get their citizenship and these children who are usually Hispanic-looking are left in these crummy trailer parks with moms who just married the dads to have a husband. After that, the moms really resent the kids and what we're getting in the schools are tons of disturbed kids. The county south of here is going berserk.

I could not tell you how many birth certificates I've translated for Hispanic guys who are marrying these awful women. You ought to hear the women: "Yeah, Jo-say and me, we just want to git married now. I cain't talk none of that Spanish but his friend says he really loves me."

[James]

So Carnation, have you noticed any real differences over the years in the ways women relate to men and the skills they are learn for relationships?

[carnation]

I think that since I was in college, the women have become less desperate to "get" a guy...and when I was in college, they were less desperate to get a guy than in my mother's day. The only place I've recently seen the overeagerness to please men has been on college campuses with many more women than men.

[SoTrue1920]

Originally posted by James

But seriously, if there has ben a change in the last few decades will that mean that more American men will be looking for more foreign brides? Or Culturally purer americans?

Culturally pure? This is AMERICA. There is no such thing as "culturally pure" with respect to this country, and anyone who suggests otherwise should go find Matt Hale and join his congregation.

I think that one of the reasons that a lot of these men seek foreign brides is because they have this perception that American women are too headstrong, that we are too self-actualized, that we're entirely too independent. If a man sees these qualities as detrimental to forging a relationship, then maybe he needs to take a look at himself and stop placing the blame on women. I think men use these straw man arguments in order to frighten women into thinking that "If I decide to stand up for myself/work outside the home/maintain my independence, I'll never find a suitable mate." What I find most appaling is that these men have embraced the very same "Americanized attitudes" that they blame American women for embracing, but no one even gives them a sideways glance.

[aephi alum]

Originally posted by SoTrue1920


I think that one of the reasons that a lot of these men seek foreign brides is because they have this perception that American women are too headstrong, that we are too self-actualized, that we're entirely too independent. If a man sees these qualities as detrimental to forging a relationship, then maybe he needs to take a look at himself and stop placing the blame on women. I think men use these straw man arguments in order to frighten women into thinking that "If I decide to stand up for myself/work outside the home/maintain my independence, I'll never find a suitable mate." What I find most appaling is that these men have embraced the very same "Americanized attitudes" that they blame American women for embracing, but no one even gives them a sideways glance.

Hear hear!!

There are a lot of men out there who feel threatened by the idea of an independent-minded woman who has a career and other priorities than being a housewife - someone who went to college for something other than an "MRS degree". It's "ok" for men to have those attitudes, because they're men. We as women are expected to submit, stay home, cook and clean, and make babies.

I'm not that type of woman, and I've always made that abundantly clear. I didn't spend 5 years in school earning 2 degrees to be a housewife. Have I lost potential mates because of it? Yes, but I would not have wanted to be married to them. Instead I am married to a wonderful man who fully supports my decision to work and to continue to work once we start a family. (Besides, I'm terrible at cleaning. )

(I don't meant to insult any SAHM's out there - it's just not something I could do. )

[Steeltrap]

Originally posted by carnation
I could not tell you how many birth certificates I've translated for Hispanic guys who are marrying these awful women. You ought to hear the women: "Yeah, Jo-say and me, we just want to git married now. I cain't talk none of that Spanish but his friend says he really loves me."

CTHU. CTHU. CTHU.

All chuckles aside, SoTrue1920's point is excellent.
These men need to check themselves, not blame the woman.
But you know what -- if those men have resentment of good qualities such as independence, ability to think for themselves, et al -- let 'em go with the foreign woman. Means less chance for abuse for those of us who want reciprocal trust, love, partnership and companionship.

[SilverTurtle]

I have to agree with every response here:

I think the "lack in relationship skills" translates in man language to "not eager and willing to 'honor and obey' me, raise my kids, clean my house, cook my dinner...."

Even in my mom's time (early 1960's), the norm was to find a good husband. If women went to college, it was primarily to husband hunt, not get their education. That was just what was expected of you as a female. Then there was this wonderful era of rebellion and civil rights movements, including Women's Lib. People, men and women, were appalled at some of these ideas. They broke apart the family and were immoral. (Read Betty Friedan's the Feminie Mystique- it was terribly criticized for demoralizing family values. But to read it today, it's nothing special.)

Unfortunately, these ideals still exist to some level today. I personally think that some men are oftened threatened by independent, strong women because they don't know what their own role is suppossed to be in the relationship- how can they both be breadwinners? What will happen to the kids? What! you don't want kids? That's your job as a woman?!

Granted, this is a slowly dying mindset, but I mean slowly. And I support any family's decision to have one parent (mom or dad) be a full-time, stay at home parent. But I don't see this as the only option.

Anyways- I know I got off on a tangent there So, James, I think in most cases, the values and attributes the men you mentioned are/were seeking in a wife weren't available to them in American form, so they sought elsewhere.

It's also possible that the women they were dating in the States didn't see the men as desirable husband material, or simply didn't want husbands. Forcing them to look elsewhere.

*Edited to add this*
James, I know you said leave the men out of it, but really-- women have been dealing with men's lack of relationship (and general communication) skills for centuries. Women in America finally feel like they can say "No, I'm not dealing with your mind games, childishness, lack of communication skills...." whatever. And not be so chastized for it. So it's also very possible that the men you mentioned are the ones lacking in the relationship skills. And the women they were dating weren't having it. (To go along with my last paragraph above).