Hazing creates a sense of unity

[Soul D-Psi-ple]

Ahhhhh I see.

[Tom Earp]

Do You really?

[shinerbock]

who, me?

[kerry4prez]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think in some places neophyte means someone who is done with pledgeship but not yet a brother.

thats how we use it. sorry i dont study up on the interpretation of "crossing" at different GLOs around the country.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

People do get killed during basic. But not that many.

I had to think about that a little.

Certainly the military is in the hazing business, but the hazers (DI's, etc) may be a little more mature than the average fraternity man (or sorority woman). They all have several years of military training themselves which probably creates some amount of that maturity. Additionally, while sometimes calling for "creativity" on the part of the DI, the military has the training down to a science and many years of "experience." The people doing the hazing are, for the most part, highly disciplined -- not the case in an organization of 18-22 year old college students away from home for the first time.

Changing gears, of course I was hazed during the pledge process. In those days, everyone was.

Over the years, I've been an advisor and division officer, and I can see absolutely no indication that physical hazing and mental distress somehow creates "closer" relationships or better pledge classes.

However, I do feel strongly that the definition of hazing needs to be honed. Some laws and rules are so broad as to be ridiculous -- but it is my opinion that the reason for these far ranging rules is that when allowed some level of hazing, some chapters and members don't know when to stop and things get terribly out of hand.

Thank you so much for proving a point I made else where Delta

[jon1856]

Just found this site-has links to all states (6 do not have ) with anti-hazing laws. Can be a rather interesting read for some here.....
http://www.stophazing.org/laws.html

Along with this one:
http://www.hazing.cornell.edu/myths.html

Which ends with this:
Myth: Hazing must be okay if the military does it.
Reality: The U.S. military does not, in fact, condone hazing practices. The military does engage in a unique type of training for dangerous military operations. This training is conducted by professionals to prepare military personnel for putting their lives on the line for their country. According to the Dept. of the Army's TRADOC Regulation 350-6: "Hazing is strictly prohibited" and is "an offense punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice.”

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Sorry, but I disagree. I know tons of chapters of Phi Delt that have been caught and none of them have "lost their charters."

Brother Tex,
I personally know of one that did....

[jon1856]

[quote=ktsnake]Interesting stuff. Perhaps a current or former national officer could inform us here. How difficult would it be for an organization to purchase liability insurance if it did not have extremely strong anti-hazing policies and programming?
KTSNAKE-run a search on hazing and you will find your answer. I just saw an article that IIRC had at least one GLO flying naked due to past acts....

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I base my claims that the strongest chapters are in the South because I have traveled to many differenct campuses across the country and have been to leadership schools for SAE in which representatives from all over the country come.....and I have listened to and heard exactly what people from the North and elsewhere think about us, and chapters from schools like Alabama, UGA, Ole Miss, etc. To be completely honest they were all pretty in awe.

Brother Tex;
Seems as if you and I could have crossed paths at some point...
But I was never put in awe by any given Chapter in any given region...And the ones that did speak of hazing were not put on my top 10 list....

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

You're right, there are insurance concerns. Thankfully, my fraternity never made a habit out of telling our nationals or insurance co. everything we were involved in. It has everything to do with political correctness. Thats why regulations go beyond the physical. The current idea of hazing often includes anything that makes a pledge feel uncomfortable or stressed or embarassed. Its great that we protect these 18 year old boys from those things, because God knows they'll never in life face periods where they are uncomfortable, stressed or embarassed.

I left a job because of many reasons-including what could be called hazing/harassment. And found a better one in a few days.

Now, if I was in College what would my choices have been? Change schools, or stay as a GDI or stay in a place that was against everything in my personal and professional life and beliefs?

Or call in the Dean of Students and National and an Attorney......

[ICEBATHSAREFUN]

Originally Posted by Tom Earp

Why is Baylor such a poor Greek School.

Seems that they have a lot of GLOs there.

Baylor has a bad Greek system because the administration at Baylor will not allow there to be a good Greek system. Fraternities get suspended for ridiculous reason that would never happen at other schools. Also Baylor did not have national fraternities until the 70's.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by ICEBATHSAREFUN

Baylor has a bad Greek system because the administration at Baylor will not allow there to be a good Greek system. Fraternities get suspended for ridiculous reason that would never happen at other schools. Also Baylor did not have national fraternities until the 70's.

Details and definitions would be very helpful in your "cause".
General comments as you made say really nothing at all.

[ICEBATHSAREFUN]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Details and definitions would be very helpful in your "cause".
General comments as you made say really nothing at all.

I would think that saying that Baylor did not affiliate with national fraternities until the 1970's would be more than a general comment. There is a freshmen girls dormitory at Baylor Collins Hall. The woman who donated the money to fund the buliding told Baylor she would only donate the money if the University guarenteed her they would never build Greek houses on Baylor's campus. So there are not any houses on Baylor's campus, and never will be. Baylor is an extremley conservative school, and there is nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't make for a good Greek system.

[ICEBATHSAREFUN]

and I really what my "cause" is?? I'm new on this board and was browsing through some old threads and someone asked a question about Baylor's Greek system so I answered.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by ICEBATHSAREFUN

and I really what my "cause" is?? I'm new on this board and was browsing through some old threads and someone asked a question about Baylor's Greek system so I answered.

You are new and just about all your post are on/about hazing and RM.
I would do more than browse the RM threads.
Read them.