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  #1  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:52 PM
Leslie Anne Leslie Anne is offline
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I don't think it's a great article, but that's not because of its negative portrayal of a sorority. What I find sad is that this woman who was badly mistreated still cannot find the strength to stick up for herself after 20 years despite becoming an attorney, a wife and mother.

I'm not blaming her for her mistreatment though. Women (and girls of all ages) can be catty. The sorority setting only intensifies that fact. At 18-years-old, many young women aren't able to fight back. Feeling the same "dirtiness" 20 years later though only speaks to this woman's lack of self-esteem. It's unfortunate.

What should she teach her daughters? That they should be proud of who they are; that they shouldn't allow petty people to affect their self-image; and, when wronged, they should have the strength of their convictions and stand up for themselves.
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  #2  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:55 PM
cuteASAbug cuteASAbug is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Anne View Post
I don't think it's a great article, but that's not because of its negative portrayal of a sorority. What I find sad is that this woman who was badly mistreated still cannot find the strength to stick up for herself after 20 years despite becoming an attorney, a wife and mother.

I'm not blaming her for her mistreatment though. Women (and girls of all ages) can be catty. The sorority setting only intensifies that fact. At 18-years-old, many young women aren't able to fight back. Feeling the same "dirtiness" 20 years later though only speaks to this woman's lack of self-esteem. It's unfortunate.

What should she teach her daughters? That they should be proud of who they are; that they shouldn't allow petty people to affect their self-image; and, when wronged, they should have the strength of their convictions and stand up for themselves.
That was basically my exact thought in a nutshell. We all know that 20+ years ago the Greek system wasn't exactly moral and pure so the sorority portrayal really doesn't bother me. What bothers me is that this woman appearsto have no backbone whatsoever, which, as a lawyer, you don't really want to be admitting to any potential clients in a national publication.
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  #3  
Old 12-02-2007, 02:59 PM
Rudey Rudey is offline
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You're blaming the victim and whether she is 18 or 38, has nothing to do with it.

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  #4  
Old 12-02-2007, 03:07 PM
Leslie Anne Leslie Anne is offline
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Rudey,

I do not (and never would) blame a rape victim!

What I feel is sad is letting a petty woman make her feel bad for something that wasn't her fault 20 years after it happened.
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Last edited by Leslie Anne; 12-02-2007 at 03:09 PM.
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  #5  
Old 12-02-2007, 03:05 PM
Little32 Little32 is offline
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I think that you all are being really hard on her. Her sorority experience was a trauma that she admits that she never really dealt with; in not dealing with that trauma, when she encounters those people again, she experiences the same sense of helplessness and defeat.

Just because means that she has never really figured out how to deal with these particular women because of the cattiness and viciousness, not to mention the rape, that she experience at a very young age, does not mean that she was not able to function normally and well in other arenas of her life. I am sorry, but if law school is anything like graduate school, you just don't get through it if you lack self-esteem.

It seems odd to blame the victim.

Other than that, not a great article; a sad commentary.
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  #6  
Old 12-02-2007, 03:21 PM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by cuteASAbug View Post
That was basically my exact thought in a nutshell. We all know that 20+ years ago the Greek system wasn't exactly moral and pure so the sorority portrayal really doesn't bother me.
We do?

No, we don't. I wouldn't say the system now is any different from the way it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. In the way we recruit, yes, but in other ways, not at all.

I know. I was there.
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  #7  
Old 12-02-2007, 07:45 PM
GeekyPenguin GeekyPenguin is offline
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Originally Posted by carnation View Post
We do?

No, we don't. I wouldn't say the system now is any different from the way it was 10, 20, 30 years ago. In the way we recruit, yes, but in other ways, not at all.

I know. I was there.
I'm sure my friends mother who was kicked out of Chi Omega for having the audacity to be black in the 1970s would feel differently. I'm sure the Catholic and Jewish women who were turned away from houses would feel differently too.

I'd know. I'm the daughter of one of them. She was there. I'm the friend of one of them. She was there too.
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  #8  
Old 12-03-2007, 12:01 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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I'm sure my friends mother who was kicked out of Chi Omega for having the audacity to be black in the 1970s would feel differently. I'm sure the Catholic and Jewish women who were turned away from houses would feel differently too.

I'd know. I'm the daughter of one of them. She was there. I'm the friend of one of them. She was there too.
I expect they probably figured out she was black before they pledged her.

As for the Catholics, I can only speak for the SEC schools I went to but there were loads of Greek Catholics on the campuses; Pi Phi had a whole bunch of them from Mobile. Nobody thought they were any different from the Protestants.

The Jews? Out of the hundreds of other students I met at my schools, I only knew one Jewish guy and his fraternity (AEPi) was tiny; Auburn, Arkansas, and Mississippi State weren't exactly loaded down with Jews. But y'know, this has nothing to do with our morality at the time. That statement was totally random and a very strange thing to see stated as fact from one who wasn't there.
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  #9  
Old 12-03-2007, 12:42 AM
ladygreek ladygreek is offline
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While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.
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  #10  
Old 12-03-2007, 01:50 AM
Animate Animate is offline
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While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.
Exactly! Her statement may have a bit over the top but it does hold some truth. There is a reason for the statement "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned".
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  #11  
Old 12-03-2007, 07:00 AM
NinjaPoodle NinjaPoodle is offline
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Originally Posted by ladygreek View Post
While I think PM_Mama's statement was over the top, I do understand what she is saying. And in someways I agree based on personal experiences.
Same here


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Originally Posted by Little32 View Post
But how can you blame her, when as an 18 year old who just endured a horrible experience and looked to her sisters for support, she instead experienced condemnation and betrayal. 1700 miles from home, her support system abandoned her, and she never really dealt with it; because on top of a rape, how do you reconcile that type of betrayal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PM_Mama00 View Post
I don't doubt that she feels rage for the guy. The difference with men and women in this story is that the women-- her SISTERS-- failed her badly. The men apologized to her. That's pretty sad.
Bottom line.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Little32
I say bravo to her that she had the fortitude to stay in school and finish and that she went on to law school and seems to have established a healthy family life for herself. She admits that she has some work to do, but I find it odd that all the comments focused on the one thing that she has not managed to accomplish yet.
I agree
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Last edited by NinjaPoodle; 12-03-2007 at 01:18 PM.
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  #12  
Old 12-03-2007, 01:12 AM
GeekyPenguin GeekyPenguin is offline
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Originally Posted by carnation View Post
I expect they probably figured out she was black before they pledged her.

As for the Catholics, I can only speak for the SEC schools I went to but there were loads of Greek Catholics on the campuses; Pi Phi had a whole bunch of them from Mobile. Nobody thought they were any different from the Protestants.

The Jews? Out of the hundreds of other students I met at my schools, I only knew one Jewish guy and his fraternity (AEPi) was tiny; Auburn, Arkansas, and Mississippi State weren't exactly loaded down with Jews. But y'know, this has nothing to do with our morality at the time. That statement was totally random and a very strange thing to see stated as fact from one who wasn't there.
I have told this story on here before. She pledged Chi O. She was initiated into Chi O. A traveling consultant from Chi O then came and said "WHAT? We can't have black sisters!" and she quit rather than make her chapter kick her out. This was in the early 1970s at a liberal arts college in Wisconsin.

You must have attended college later than my mother and her friends, who were in school in the early 70s as well.

That statement wasn't random. You assert that sororities are exactly the same as they used to be except recruitment. I am showing you an example of how that isn't true.

And to get back off the "let's derail anything GeekyPenguin posts because I think she has a hidden agenda about me for some reason" train, I think what happened to this women is really unfortunate. Many women look to sororities to provide a strong, empowering female experience and that clearly isn't what she got.
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  #13  
Old 12-03-2007, 01:26 AM
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honeychile honeychile is offline
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I wonder if it had more to do with the consultant than Chi Omega's HQ? A single bigot can wreak havoc in any organization.

But we're derailing the article & main topic of this thread. Doesn't anyone else wonder if the New York Times would be in a hurry to print an article on "How I Pledged 21 Years Ago, and It Was One of the Best Moves I Ever Made"?
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Last edited by honeychile; 12-03-2007 at 01:30 AM.
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  #14  
Old 12-03-2007, 07:30 AM
carnation carnation is offline
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Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin View Post
I have told this story on here before. She pledged Chi O. She was initiated into Chi O. A traveling consultant from Chi O then came and said "WHAT? We can't have black sisters!" and she quit rather than make her chapter kick her out. This was in the early 1970s at a liberal arts college in Wisconsin.

You must have attended college later than my mother and her friends, who were in school in the early 70s as well.

That statement wasn't random. You assert that sororities are exactly the same as they used to be except recruitment. I am showing you an example of how that isn't true.

And to get back off the "let's derail anything GeekyPenguin posts because I think she has a hidden agenda about me for some reason" train, I think what happened to this women is really unfortunate. Many women look to sororities to provide a strong, empowering female experience and that clearly isn't what she got.
I didn't mean that your statement was random-- I meant that cuteASAbug's was, I don't want to derail your posts, and I attended college in the early seventies. (In the Deep South.) I also hate derailing threads. However, it's important to me and to the other older women who post here that the Greek system of that time be defended.

And many sororities pledged people back in the day who were non-white or partially non-white. *Like me.* The people who recommended us and the ones who pledged us knew it and certainly several national consultants who dropped by could tell.
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