Sonics owner tells NBA he wants to move team to Oklahoma City

[Rudey]

Owners will push for a new stadium every 5 years. They'll generally ask for something that is larger. What that means is a stadium that has less seats but more luxury boxes. They'll also push for bigger portions of sales from things like concessions. How will they finance it? By forcing the city to issue public bonds. At the same time, the public sees no benefit, traffic becomes an issue, other businesses suffer, etc.

So let them move. In fact, encourage them to move.

-Rudey

[PeppyGPhiB]

As of yesterday afternoon's court ruling, it's official: the "Sonics" are moving to OK City. Feelings here in Seattle are mixed.

[Kevin]

Feelings in OKC really aren't.

FWIW, I think Seattle made out very well on the settlement.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Feelings in OKC really aren't.

FWIW, I think Seattle made out very well on the settlement.

In the sense that they got an assload of money, sure - however, now they have to wait for the crumbling abortion of the Memphis Grizzlies to pack up and move to Seattle in a few years so the fans can endure about 6 years of losing then OJ Mayo packing up and hauling ass to LA (all under the tidy moniker "Sonics" that city officials are so proud to keep), while the goodwill of the fan base is absolutely pissed on in the interim, so there's that side too.

Enjoy your new owner - remember, though, that the cackling douche will come for more cash as soon as feasible.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

In the sense that they got an assload of money, sure - however, now they have to wait for the crumbling abortion of the Memphis Grizzlies to pack up and move to Seattle in a few years so the fans can endure about 6 years of losing then OJ Mayo packing up and hauling ass to LA (all under the tidy moniker "Sonics" that city officials are so proud to keep), while the goodwill of the fan base is absolutely pissed on in the interim, so there's that side too.

Enjoy your new owner - remember, though, that the cackling douche will come for more cash as soon as feasible.

Clay Bennett's family has been involved in Oklahoma City since his wife's great-great grandfather reputedly packed up his brothel in Denver (I can't verify that, but I have heard it), moved to OKC and started up a Newspaper. I've never met the man, but I know many who do. He's by all accounts a pretty decent person.

As far as having his hand out, the city has already provided him with an arena built in '95, which is getting a $150M makeover this Summer, courtesy of a recent bond issue.

I'm sure he'll be back for more cash -- and I'm also quite sure that the people of Oklahoma City will happily fork it over. We've had some pretty good success with public works projects over the last couple of decades and many see an NBA franchise as confirmation that our sales tax and bond dollars have been well-spent.

As far as Bennett ever turning a profit on that team, considering the amount he is out at this point (350M for the purchase of the team and up to 75M to move), that's probably not going to happen for awhile.

[PeppyGPhiB]

How many people live in Oklahoma City and the surrounding area? I know folks have said that the Hornets games had good attendance when they were there, but that was a limited engagement and a novelty. Novelty wears off; what happens when the team isn't new anymore, the team stinks, and ticket prices go up? Is the population of that area big enough to support the team? Or are they going to have to rely on the same small core of people to go to every game?

The Key Arena is essentially a new arena. Not on the outside, since it was the original Coliseum, but the inside was completely gutted in the 90s. Why would we want to pay another $250 MILLION to renovate it again just 10 or 15 years later? We renovated it the first time according to what the Sonics owners wanted, and the past several years they haven't even come close to selling it out. In the end many Seattlites just got tired of the constant whining from team owners, especially the owners from out of state that I think everyone knew would want to move the team - that was the first thing I thought of when I heard that some out-of-towner had bought the Sonics.

At least we got to keep the nickname, colors, etc. so that we can bring back the Sonics another time if we want to. I'd personally much rather have a NHL team.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

How many people live in Oklahoma City and the surrounding area? I know folks have said that the Hornets games had good attendance when they were there, but that was a limited engagement and a novelty. Novelty wears off; what happens when the team isn't new anymore, the team stinks, and ticket prices go up? Is the population of that area big enough to support the team? Or are they going to have to rely on the same small core of people to go to every game?

We're about a 1.5M MSA.

It's tough to speculate as to how we'll support a 'down' team. Remember, when the Hornets came to OKC, they were one of the worst teams in the league. In the first year, if you don't count the poorly-attended NO games, we were 9th in the NBA in attendance. That year, the team was sub .500. We had 18 sellouts or better. 2006 was comparable, but I wasn't able to find any exact numbers.

We put 85,000+ butts in seats for all of the Oklahoma U. football games, so I think we can support the team. We did well with the sub-.500 Hornets, but we'll see. I think we'll be able to support the team. If I'm wrong, I'm sure you'll quote this post in a few years and have a good laugh at my expense.

The Key Arena is essentially a new arena. Not on the outside, since it was the original Coliseum, but the inside was completely gutted in the 90s. Why would we want to pay another $250 MILLION to renovate it again just 10 or 15 years later? We renovated it the first time according to what the Sonics owners wanted, and the past several years they haven't even come close to selling it out. In the end many Seattlites just got tired of the constant whining from team owners, especially the owners from out of state that I think everyone knew would want to move the team - that was the first thing I thought of when I heard that some out-of-towner had bought the Sonics.

According to Stern, the arena didn't meet NBA criteria. I don't really have anything bad to say about the Key. I'm sure it's a fine facility. I don't have anything more to go on. OKC's Ford Center was built in '95 as an "NBA-ready" facility. It's getting $150 million worth of improvements to bring it up to par for the new team. Comparing two arenas, I'm sure, is apples to oranges.

I was struck by one of Bennett's comments last night at his press conference when he mentioned that the Ford Center was limited in that it doesn't have enough seats (19,675).

A new arena is probably in the works. OKC has had a series of public works programs geared at improving the city. Somoe of the tentative drawings I've seen on OKC's next big round of public works programs include a new, larger arena.

OKC has passed all of these public works programs by a very wide margin.

At least we got to keep the nickname, colors, etc. so that we can bring back the Sonics another time if we want to. I'd personally much rather have a NHL team.

It would have been odd to have the Oklahoma City Sonics. I think Bennett's decision to take the trophies/record/etc. was the wrong one. I think all of that ought to remain in Seattle.

NHL is good stuff. I think the Grizzlies may be heading your way soon enough.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Clay Bennett's family has been involved in Oklahoma City since his wife's great-great grandfather reputedly packed up his brothel in Denver (I can't verify that, but I have heard it), moved to OKC and started up a Newspaper. I've never met the man, but I know many who do. He's by all accounts a pretty decent person.

As far as having his hand out, the city has already provided him with an arena built in '95, which is getting a $150M makeover this Summer, courtesy of a recent bond issue.

I'm sure he'll be back for more cash -- and I'm also quite sure that the people of Oklahoma City will happily fork it over. We've had some pretty good success with public works projects over the last couple of decades and many see an NBA franchise as confirmation that our sales tax and bond dollars have been well-spent.

As far as Bennett ever turning a profit on that team, considering the amount he is out at this point (350M for the purchase of the team and up to 75M to move), that's probably not going to happen for awhile.

You are so ridiculous it's hilarious.

OKC is filled with a bunch of idiots if they think their tax dollars are well spent on this and you are amazing for thinking someone just LOVES losing money on a sports team. Heck if you love losing money so much why don't you offer to purchase some of the liabilities off Bennett...I'm sure since it's so unprofitable he'd gladly turn it over to you.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Rudey

You are so ridiculous it's hilarious.

OKC is filled with a bunch of idiots if they think their tax dollars are well spent on this and you are amazing for thinking someone just LOVES losing money on a sports team. Heck if you love losing money so much why don't you offer to purchase some of the liabilities off Bennett...I'm sure since it's so unprofitable he'd gladly turn it over to you.

I don't think OKC was focused on making a profit here.

We all know it's probably going to hemorrhage money. To be honest, I think most folks here are fine with that.

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Owners will push for a new stadium every 5 years. They'll generally ask for something that is larger. What that means is a stadium that has less seats but more luxury boxes. They'll also push for bigger portions of sales from things like concessions. How will they finance it? By forcing the city to issue public bonds. At the same time, the public sees no benefit, traffic becomes an issue, other businesses suffer, etc.

So let them move. In fact, encourage them to move.

-Rudey

How do you figure this? Are you saying this is the case for all major sports?

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

How do you figure this? Are you saying this is the case for all major sports?

It is generally the case but I don't know enough about hockey and soccer to say that.

The reason it works is that the revenue streams for the luxury boxes usually are tied to the owners and a percentage of the fees from general ticket sales are used to back the bonds for the stadium's construction.

http://www.google.com/search?q=new+s...ri&rls=en&sa=2

I figured I would let you look at the google results if you're really interested.

[TexasWSP]

Originally Posted by Rudey

It is generally the case but I don't know enough about hockey and soccer to say that.

The reason it works is that the revenue streams for the luxury boxes usually are tied to the owners and a percentage of the fees from general ticket sales are used to back the bonds for the stadium's construction.

http://www.google.com/search?q=new+s...ri&rls=en&sa=2

I figured I would let you look at the google results if you're really interested.

Unless it's just not publicized when an owner wants a new stadium, I'm not sure I can agree.

There have been plenty of brand new facilities built in all three major sports over the past 5-10 years that I can think of off the top of my head...and I'm not hearing anything about owners wanting an upgrade from any of them.

I will be willing to bet Jerry Jones, for instance, isn't going to be asking for another new stadium in five years after the completion of, most likely, the most luxurious and sophisticated place to watch a sporting event you can get. I can't imagine Cuban asking for a new place for the Mavs to play basketball in anytime soon either. American Airlines is as good as it gets. These are only a couple of examples, but still....

Also, I'm not really seeing many big changes in general seating to luxury box seats and I go to a lot of sporting events in many different places.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

Unless it's just not publicized when an owner wants a new stadium, I'm not sure I can agree.

There have been plenty of brand new facilities built in all three major sports over the past 5-10 years that I can think of off the top of my head...and I'm not hearing anything about owners wanting an upgrade from any of them.

I will be willing to bet Jerry Jones, for instance, isn't going to be asking for another new stadium in five years after the completion of, most likely, the most luxurious and sophisticated place to watch a sporting event you can get. I can't imagine Cuban asking for a new place for the Mavs to play basketball in anytime soon either. American Airlines is as good as it gets. These are only a couple of examples, but still....

Also, I'm not really seeing many big changes in general seating to luxury box seats and I go to a lot of sporting events in many different places.

Jerry Jones is a very prominent exception to the rule, as is Cuban - that I'll agree. The fact that they both operate out of Dallas is pretty much luck (for the people of Dallas), and not indicative of the larger trend.

Baseball stadiums are the best examples of the new trend toward smaller stadiums with more luxury seating - PNC in Pittsburgh, for instance, dropped about 10,000 total seats from Three Rivers, but with a much higher concentration of high-dollar, high-revenue luxury boxes. Similar things are happening in the NBA.

Football stadiums don't exactly follow the pattern, mostly because the comparably fewer games played by each team leads to a lot more sellouts (and larger capacity is valued there, mostly to appease population demand). However, luxury seating is still at a premium - the main reason for obsoleting the old Foxboro Stadium so the Pats could build Gillette was that it lacked any sort of premium seating.

The main issue isn't getting rid of regular seats completely, it's a redesign of seating to maximize revenue from luxury boxes. You have to sell a crapload of $19 seats to garner the same revenue as one corporate box.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Baseball stadiums are the best examples of the new trend toward smaller stadiums with more luxury seating - PNC in Pittsburgh, for instance, dropped about 10,000 total seats from Three Rivers, but with a much higher concentration of high-dollar, high-revenue luxury boxes. Similar things are happening in the NBA.

It's exactly what the Yankees are doing with their new stadium. I'd never heard of it before (dropping regular seating to increase luxury box seating), but that's just probably because I never paid much attention to the details of other new stadiums.