right/wrong

SydneyK · #1 09-13-2007, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

It's really not difficult, and you will be taken 100 times more serious (whether here on GC or out in the "real world") if you take the time to proofread, punctuate and capitalize.

Ahem... self-proclaimed grammar nerd (snob?), here.

You're right, AF, even though you were grammatically incorrect. You will be taken 100 times more seriously...

AlphaFrog · #2 09-13-2007, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Ahem... self-proclaimed grammar nerd (snob?), here.

You're right, AF, even though you were grammatically incorrect. You will be taken 100 times more seriously...

Actually, I knew I was wrong, and that it didn't sound right, but my brain shut off and I couldn't figure out how to better express my sentiment.

Still, when I say I'm a grammar snob, I mean I appreciate the attempt, even if it's not perfect. People, such as the OP, who don't even make the attempt are what drive me crazy.

lovelyivy84 · #3 09-13-2007, 10:12 AM

I make an effort to use proper grammar because I write for a living, and for a series of clients at that. Everything has to be perfect, every comma, colon and bullet point has to be formatted exactly the same way. Drives me nuts.

I just don't put much stock in it personally. It's an unfortunate necessity as far as I'm concerned.

SWTXBelle · #4 09-13-2007, 10:46 AM

I don't believe a command of grammar has anything to do with social class. There are numerous examples in public life of those who may technically be of a high social class who cause their former English teachers to weep. It does indicate a certain level of education, but is easily learned by anyone who cares to go to the public library. (I wish I could say anyone who has received a public education, but we all know that is no longer the case. I know of a school district where you can be fired for teaching sentence diagramming!)
Anyone who has tried to make sense of a post filled with grammatical errors or had to try and translate the pigeon English of a technical support person knows that it is frustrating.
I do believe it is necessary for clear communication. With the advent of text-driven technology it has become more important than ever. That said, I am not one to go around correcting grammar for free. Heck, I've made a fair living doing it for money. Of course, if you decide to adopt a holier-than-thou attitude here on GC and do so in a post riddled with errors, you have painted a target on yourself.
I also think it is important to realize that a language is not a static thing. It evolves and changes. For example, technically "their" is plural. But having dealt with the "his/her" thing for so long, I have come to think that perhaps a nice, simple singular use of "their" would make things easier. Which is better - "Every student must bring his/her book" or "Every student must bring their book". I know the second is wrong - but I hate the first. Mind you, I still use the first. But secretly, I hope the second is eventually accepted.

SydneyK · #5 09-13-2007, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

For example, technically "their" is plural. But having dealt with the "his/her" thing for so long, I have come to think that perhaps a nice, simple singular use of "their" would make things easier. Which is better - "Every student must bring his/her book" or "Every student must bring their book". I know the second is wrong - but I hate the first. Mind you, I still use the first. But secretly, I hope the second is eventually accepted.

Well said, SWTXBelle (the whole post, not just what was quoted). Regarding the quoted part, wouldn't "All students must bring their books" solve the problem? (I'm not nitpicking, I'm honestly asking.)

One of my profs in undergrad was a stickler for split infinitives ("To boldly go where no man has gone before" is grammatically incorrect) and the proper placement of the word "only". It's amazing how some things, even if they're wrong, just sound more correct than what actually is correct.

BTW, I figure this discussion isn't really a hijack, as the thread topic is right/wrong.

MysticCat · #6 09-13-2007, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

also think it is important to realize that a language is not a static thing. It evolves and changes. For example, technically "their" is plural. But having dealt with the "his/her" thing for so long, I have come to think that perhaps a nice, simple singular use of "their" would make things easier. Which is better - "Every student must bring his/her book" or "Every student must bring their book". I know the second is wrong - but I hate the first. Mind you, I still use the first. But secretly, I hope the second is eventually accepted.

I've been saying for years that before long, grammar books will recognize this use of "their" as acceptable. Same with "they" -- "Dad, someone's on the phone for you." "I'm busy. What do they want?"

Of course, the problem in your example is avoided if one says "All students must bring their books."

ETA: Sydney, great minds think alike.

AlphaFrog · #7 09-13-2007, 11:14 AM

How about we just say this and call it a day:

lovelyivy84 · #8 09-13-2007, 11:35 AM

I have no problem with rules that reinforce clear communication- use of periods, avoiding run-on sentences, subject-verb agreement, my pet peeve about the use of apostrophes, etc. They make sense.

But little nitpicky things like using "their" instead of his/her, or proper use of whom, or using the word ain't, or a million other questions of proper grammar usage (that are increasingly archaic) are completely useless IMO. In those cases, it's not about clear communication, it's about dumb rules that increasingly fewer people know or care about.

ETA: I dont care about the initial poster really- I think our present conversation is way more interesting.

AOII Angel · #9 09-13-2007, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lovelyivy84

I make an effort to use proper grammar because I write for a living, and for a series of clients at that. Everything has to be perfect, every comma, colon and bullet point has to be formatted exactly the same way. Drives me nuts.

I just don't put much stock in it personally. It's an unfortunate necessity as far as I'm concerned.

So happy to see you don't put commas before "and"! That is my personal pet peeve! Of course, I have many pets...my husband suggests that all people call my 1-800 number to get my opinion before doing anything!!

Drolefille · #10 09-13-2007, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

So happy to see you don't put commas before "and"! That is my personal pet peeve! Of course, I have many pets...my husband suggests that all people call my 1-800 number to get my opinion before doing anything!!

The serial comma is an accepted part of english grammar!

Don't take it away!

AOII Angel · #11 09-13-2007, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The serial comma is an accepted part of english grammar!

Don't take it away!

It is...but most accepted style manuals discourage its use. Each comma is like an "and" so putting a comma in front of "and" is a little redundant. It's my pet peeve because transcriptionist frequently add a comma where I purposely leave one out when I dictate reports. I used to spend hours removing commas from my final reports because I'm crazy!

Drolefille · #12 09-13-2007, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

It is...but most accepted style manuals discourage its use. Each comma is like an "and" so putting a comma in front of "and" is a little redundant. It's my pet peeve because transcriptionist frequently add a comma where I purposely leave one out when I dictate reports. I used to spend hours removing commas from my final reports because I'm crazy!

But it can be confusing if you leave it out. I refuse to drop the serial comma!

(And most of the grammar sites I just googled recommend its use.)