Comparison of American and German fraternities/sororities

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

I was refering to the typical university cities in Germany, e.g. Marburg, Göttingen, Heidelberg...

Sorry, but your German sentence doesn´t make sense. What do you mean by saying this?

It was based on a phrase used by a former American comedian as his trademark.

Never mind, it was a poor attempt at humor.

ETA: My fraternity also has brothers located in Germany as well.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Are you for real?

Well, ich bin verde ein schmutzinger vogel sein *lol*

"Verde" is Spanish.
"Schmutzinger" is a surname.

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

I was refering to the typical university cities in Germany, e.g. Marburg, Göttingen, Heidelberg...

Sorry, but your German sentence doesn´t make sense. What do you mean by saying this?

What he was TRYING to say was "Ich bin werde ein schmutziger vogel sein".

Not that it's any funnier. And I think the sentence structure is still a little weak.

[RU OX Alum]

he will become a dirty bird?

ich werde das nie verstehen

aber, ich will gern zulernen von deutsche "fraternites" (studentbrudershaften?)

does anybody remember the name of the German fraternity that the one guy who used to post here was in? It had four colors on the coat of arms and they wore tri-colored caps on their heads, and dressed in uniforms with swords.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

"Verde" is Spanish.
"Schmutzinger" is a surname.

What he was TRYING to say was "Ich bin werde ein schmutziger vogel sein".

Not that it's any funnier. And I think the sentence structure is still a little weak.

*lol* Thank you for clarifying. While I haven't actively spoke German save for a few phrases here and there since high school (over 15 years ago), I think I did a pretty darn good job for a rusty guy like myself. *makes pseudo-dignifed facial grimace*

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Well, ich bin verde ein schmutzinger vogel sein *lol*

Okay, there are 2 options to correct this sentence:

- Ich bin ein schmutziger Vogel. (I am a dirty bird).
- Ich werde ein schmutziger Vogel sein. (I will be a dirty bird).

As the second sounds a bit crazy, I guess you meant the first one.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Okay, there are 2 options to correct this sentence:

- Ich bin ein schmutziger Vogel. (I am a dirty bird).
- Ich werde ein schmutziger Vogel sein. (I will be a dirty bird).

As the second sounds a bit crazy, I guess you meant the first one.

Crazy as it is, it's actually the second version.

Look up the phrase "I'll be a monkey's uncle". It's the same thing, but more commonly used.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Okay, there are 2 options to correct this sentence:

- Ich bin ein schmutziger Vogel. (I am a dirty bird).
- Ich werde ein schmutziger Vogel sein. (I will be a dirty bird).

As the second sounds a bit crazy, I guess you meant the first one.

They say you know you're in trouble if your jokes have to be explained. *lol*

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Most groups have potential new members (PMN) or candidates for Membership Intake Processes (MIP). I believe Ariesrising runs the "Greekpages" site that explains the variations of each group.
PMNs generally are recruited and are freshman upon initiation. MIP candidates select their organization and pursue membership independently, rarely some are freshman upon initiation.

Ah, thank you for the explanation

Well, in German students´corporations there are 4 status for the members:

Fux/Fuchs/Fähe/Renonce: Is a new member of the corporation who has just entered and therefore doesn´t have full rights or obligations. Usually you are have this status for 2 semesters. It is a kind of probation time where the new member and the corporation can find out if they fit together. After this time (and in the fencing fraternities after a first fencing duel), the new member will pass an exam (oral test about the history of students´corporation in Germany, about the history of the own fraternity/sorority, about the students´corporations in the same town etc.) and then he/she will be accept as

Aktiver Bursch/aktive Dame/Mädel: This are members with full rights and obligations who will take over positions within the corporation.

Inaktiver Bursch/inaktive Dame/Mädel: At the end of your studies you will become "inactive" which means you will have less obligations. This is because your studies are always on No. 1 and at the end of your studies you need the time to prepare for exams.

Alter Herr/Hohe Dame/Philister: After finishing your studies and entering working life, you will become alter Herr/hohe Dame/Philister. From this time onwards you will mainly support your corporation with money.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Hazing is illegal in most states with jail time. People should never do it. I do not condone it. But the actions of few ruin it for all.

Good to know Well, as you can see in my former posts: We do have the same reputation problem here in Germany. But it IS a problem: The good times are over and it isn´t easy to find new member to keep your corporation alive.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Did you want to have this discussion "top side"? Because it is helping me observing it from another country's POV. Also, there is a graduate (alumnae) chapter of my sorority in Frankfurt, Germany near the US Military Base.

Sorry, don´t know what you mean with "top side".

There are sorority sisters of your in Germany? Cool! Do you think there´s a way to get in touch with them? Maybe one of them is interested in giving a speech about sororities in the US?
My sorority has - as the only sorority in Germany - the goal to pratise and support the English language as it is the new "lingua franca". We therefore would love to have someone here to give us a lecture - even if it is in English

[tld221]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Well, in German students´corporations there are 4 status for the members:

Fux/Fuchs/Fähe/Renonce: Is a new member of the corporation who has just entered and therefore doesn´t have full rights or obligations. Usually you are have this status for 2 semesters. It is a kind of probation time where the new member and the corporation can find out if they fit together. After this time (and in the fencing fraternities after a first fencing duel), the new member will pass an exam (oral test about the history of students´corporation in Germany, about the history of the own fraternity/sorority, about the students´corporations in the same town etc.) and then he/she will be accept as

Aktiver Bursch/aktive Dame/Mädel: This are members with full rights and obligations who will take over positions within the corporation.

Inaktiver Bursch/inaktive Dame/Mädel: At the end of your studies you will become "inactive" which means you will have less obligations. This is because your studies are always on No. 1 and at the end of your studies you need the time to prepare for exams.

Alter Herr/Hohe Dame/Philister: After finishing your studies and entering working life, you will become alter Herr/hohe Dame/Philister. From this time onwards you will mainly support your corporation with money.

a couple of questions (on the bolded parts):

when the new members are in that "probationary" period, is it understood that the fit is/will be good? in other words, a person wouldnt be a new member of more than one corporation? or a person wouldnt be a member of one corporation, then decide after 2 semester "hey this isnt for me!" and then pursue another corporation?

also, when a member finishes their studies and moves on to working life, do they support the corporation ONLY with money? there are people who run the corporation overall that have finished school, right? and curious, are there other ways that a "alter Herr/hohe Dame/Philister" WOULD support their corporations aside from writing checks/giving donations?

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by tld221

a couple of questions (on the bolded parts):

when the new members are in that "probationary" period, is it understood that the fit is/will be good? in other words, a person wouldnt be a new member of more than one corporation? or a person wouldnt be a member of one corporation, then decide after 2 semester "hey this isnt for me!" and then pursue another corporation?

Usually the active and inactive members of a corporation decide whether to accept a new member or not. Of course, if there are strong doubts from the beginning, you need to discuss. In a friend´s fraternity they only let new members enter as long as ALL active and inactive members agree with it.
When you enter one corporation as a new member, you are not able to enter another one. Of course, when you have finally been accepted and move to another town, you can ask your corporation for permission to enter another corporation. During the 2 semester of probation, you can leave the corporation without giving any reasons. The corporation has the same right. If you decide to leave your corporation (no matter if you are only on probation or fully accepted), you are allowed to enter a new corporation.
If your corporation threw you out, it is quite likely that no other corporation will accept you.

Originally Posted by tld221

also, when a member finishes their studies and moves on to working life, do they support the corporation ONLY with money? there are people who run the corporation overall that have finished school, right? and curious, are there other ways that a "alter Herr/hohe Dame/Philister" WOULD support their corporations aside from writing checks/giving donations?

Yes, sorry, it was only scratching the edge: Of course, they will help the studying members and they do have their own organisation who e.g. is dealing about the house (as far as the corporation has one) etc.
But most working members are no longer in their university city, therefore their main support will be money. Of course, sometimes you will receive support for your start at work, but to be honest: It is no longer common to get a good job from a frat brother/sorority sister. Corporations do not have the same standing they had a century ago.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Sorry, don´t know what you mean with "top side".

Topside, usually means on of the aircraft carrier... But, in this context, you had requested that we PM you. So, I was unsure if you wanted us not to post anything on your Thread.

I do, find your statements TRES INTERRESANTS!!!

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

There are sorority sisters of your in Germany? Cool! Do you think there´s a way to get in touch with them? Maybe one of them is interested in giving a speech about sororities in the US?
My sorority has - as the only sorority in Germany - the goal to pratise and support the English language as it is the new "lingua franca". We therefore would love to have someone here to give us a lecture - even if it is in English

Well, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. is the first sorority organized for and by Black women at Howard University in Washington D.C. Since, most of our ancestors in America were enslaved 500 years ago, there was a necessity 100 years ago to be formed, although not every single member is Black. Our motto is "To be of service to all mankind". We arose out of necessity to serve our communities. Overtime, we developed our own personal characteristics, just like everyone else here.

I misspoke, the chapter is near Heidelberg. The website is here.

I do not know how far you are from the area, but, feel free to contact them on new ideas... Also, we are not the only US originated, ethnically based sorority there, there is Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

The US has gone through trying times. I think some things have changed for the better. These organizations still exist for reasons that may not be clearly apparent. One thing I have seen through Greekchat, that we are all in this together, yet we need our distinctions because humanity needs all peoples' perspectives and cannot excel if one's is suppressed...

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I do, find your statements TRES INTERRESANTS!!!

Thank you I also have to thank you all for your posts. As soon as I have more time (currently I am preparing for an exam) I will visit all the sites to recommended me.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Well, Alpha Kappa Alpha Sorority, Inc. is the first sorority organized for and by Black women at Howard University in Washington D.C. Since, most of our ancestors in America were enslaved 500 years ago, there was a necessity 100 years ago to be formed, although not every single member is Black. Our motto is "To be of service to all mankind". We arose out of necessity to serve our communities. Overtime, we developed our own personal characteristics, just like everyone else here.

Hey, that´s definitely something to be proud of! As I mentioned before, the German sororities are quite young. There have been sororities (the first one was founded in 1899) before the wars and they were formed for similar reasons: the first women at university organised in sororities to support each other.
There is a website showing parts of an exhibition about the first women at university in Germany. Here, it is mentioned, that some professors refused to teach as long as there are women in the room or that the first female students felt quite uncomfortable as men started to whistle when they entered the room.

After the 2nd World War, the situation for women in Germany changed a lot. First they had to build up the country and later their role was more to stay at home and care for husband and children.

So the first "new" sorority was founded in 1976, the TTDV Ferra Floris. It is has a textile-technical orientation.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I misspoke, the chapter is near Heidelberg. The website is here.

I do not know how far you are from the area, but, feel free to contact them on new ideas... Also, we are not the only US originated, ethnically based sorority there, there is Delta Sigma Theta Sorority, Inc.

Ah, Heidelberg Yeah, there are a lot of Americans near Heidelberg.

Unfortunately, I do live in the North of Germany, but we have plans to visit friends from another sorority which is located in Heidelberg. (They meet up in the most famous students´corporations pub "Schnookeloch". It is decorated with old pictures, colours and typical items of the corporations from Heidelberg)
Thanks for the link.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

The US has gone through trying times. I think some things have changed for the better. These organizations still exist for reasons that may not be clearly apparent. One thing I have seen through Greekchat, that we are all in this together, yet we need our distinctions because humanity needs all peoples' perspectives and cannot excel if one's is suppressed...

That´s right.

By the way: I like your signature Our motto is a quote from Aesop: "Hic Rhodus, hic salta!". As determination is one of your principles, this sentences should remind every sorority sister so show what she is really able to do. Hm, it´s difficult to translate it. I hope you understand what I mean.

The Latin language is integrated in the German students´ corporations life. Most corporations have latin principles, e.g. scientia, religio, patria.... We also use single words or phrases during celebrations, e.g. "Silentium" to make the attendees shut up.
By the way: Our celebrations/rituals are nothing we keep in secrecy. There is only one event which externals cannot attend: the so-called "Convent". It is the meeting of the active/inactive members of the corporations where all kind of organisation stuff as well as punishment etc. is discussed.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

By the way: Our celebrations/rituals are nothing we keep in secrecy. There is only one event which externals cannot attend: the so-called "Convent". It is the meeting of the active/inactive members of the corporations where all kind of organisation stuff as well as punishment etc. is discussed.

So I can only speak for my own Sorority and in general because most Greek-Lettered Organizations hold their meetings in private with some ritual involved.

We have general body meetings for ONLY members. We have events for the public. These events are social parties, "step shows", and community service activities. Sometimes these events turn into all 3. There are others that we have.

However, meetings and initiations are extremely private. Everyone does their own "activity" in regards to that. Without getting into rituals, at the end of the initiation of new members, we might have a "high tea", with or without family members.

[inger]

Re-vitalizing this old thread (Mods, if this is inappropriate, please let me know).

Continuing the fabulous work of Victoria and having the pleasure of learning about Greek Life in the US, by reading this forum (unfortunately i spent a year at an US University without Greek Life), i will try to provide some insight about german fraternities and their origins to this forum.

There will be several posts dealing with:
- The general history of fraternities in germany
- From the perspective of my "National/Umbrella Organization":
-- How we are organized (national, chapter)
-- What are the processes and guidelines
-- Fraternity life

So lets start with the first chapter and enjoy the show.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

We also have a specific kind of celebration called "Kneipe" where we sing traditional student songs, we hear speeches and we drink a lot of alcohol.

Not to be rude, but this just made me giggle. Sometimes we do that, too (only every now and then, though ).