Comparison of American and German fraternities/sororities

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Can you give us some links to educate ourselves regarding the histories of these organizations?

Just wrote a long reply but unfortunately my browser collapsed. Okay, I try to give some short facts:

The first fraternities were founded 200 years ago. The first sorority in 1899. Sororities and fraternities were forbidden in the 2. World War. After the war some fraternities reopened.
The first "new" sorority was founded in 1976. Today we have about 30 sororities in Germany, half of them were founded after year 2000.

German fraternities are usually named after geographical areas or rivers, e.g. Danubia, Slesvico-Holsatia, Germania, Palatia....

German sororities are mainly named after Greek or Roman goddesses (e.g. Athenia, Athena, Victoria, Selenia) or strong women.

Freshman are not treated in the way you do in America. We are happy to have new members and as there are a lot of stereotypes about fraternities and sororities, it is not easy to get new members.

The traditions of the German fraternities/sororities are mainly based in Germans history. For example: Some fraternities practise the academic fencing which has nothing to do with the fencing you know as sports.

We also have a specific kind of celebration called "Kneipe" where we sing traditional student songs, we hear speeches and we drink a lot of alcohol.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Freshman are not treated in the way you do in America. We are happy to have new members and as there are a lot of stereotypes about fraternities and sororities, it is not easy to get new members.

I had no idea there were such groups in Germany...do you actually call them fraternities and sororities?

Also, as quoted above, you should be careful about generalizations. Not all organizations haze or treat their new members poorly.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Just wrote a long reply but unfortunately my browser collapsed. Okay, I try to give some short facts:

The first fraternities were founded 200 years ago. The first sorority in 1899. Sororities and fraternities were forbidden in the 2. World War. After the war some fraternities reopened.
The first "new" sorority was founded in 1976. Today we have about 30 sororities in Germany, half of them were founded after year 2000.

German fraternities are usually named after geographical areas or rivers, e.g. Danubia, Slesvico-Holsatia, Germania, Palatia....

German sororities are mainly named after Greek or Roman goddesses (e.g. Athenia, Athena, Victoria, Selenia) or strong women.

Freshman are not treated in the way you do in America. We are happy to have new members and as there are a lot of stereotypes about fraternities and sororities, it is not easy to get new members.

The traditions of the German fraternities/sororities are mainly based in Germans history. For example: Some fraternities practise the academic fencing which has nothing to do with the fencing you know as sports.

We also have a specific kind of celebration called "Kneipe" where we sing traditional student songs, we hear speeches and we drink a lot of alcohol.

Thanks for your wonderful history lesson. You or someone in your organizations should write a brief ezine, or book about it. Seriously!

It sounds like it is a Germanic heritage and cultural expression mechanism for Fraternities and Sororities.

SOME American fraternities and sororities that are closely associated with colleges and universities are based on various heritages and cultures. While there are some "stereotypes" that American fraternities and sororities have as "American historical pursuits and traditions" that we all get labeled as having, such as those seen "Animal House", "ABC GREEK" and "Stomp the Yard"; all are about doing wonderful things for individual members and the community.

I think the issue here is in the United States: allegedly, we do have the "right to free association" as a Constitutional Bill of Right for all citizens... As I understand it, the E.U. has confirmed those rights as covenants and then added more.

I think several entities after the WWII did not want the German citizens to EVER form any groups of change among the "educated" again. Although, at some level it is unfair, in others, I can see why folks are concerned.

In the US, although the government legally cannot control who people associated with, they do require registration of large sums of money to be justified by a IRS federal taxes, such as 501c7 and 501c3 codes. And if one does not want their information, such as design of any insignia stolen, they must incorporate it through the Federal IRS and State Tax system. If events occur that block free access to locations, groups will get arrested for that without appropriate permits.

As far a dress, folks can wear whatever they want to, as long as it is not indecent exposure for the given weather climate and location. Although in the 1990's somewhere in the Northern California there was the "naked man"... And we also have the "homeless" bums that wear whatever...

I think that in Germany, no one can EVER wear items reflecting WWII replicates... I could be wrong. Ironically, some folks in the US try wearing all the stuff here. They can be arrested, but more likely, they will be beat up... Or folks will have huge anger issue with that occurring.

Most groups have potential new members (PMN) or candidates for Membership Intake Processes (MIP). I believe Ariesrising runs the "Greekpages" site that explains the variations of each group.

PMNs generally are recruited and are freshman upon initiation. MIP candidates select their organization and pursue membership independently, rarely some are freshman upon initiation.

Hazing is illegal in most states with jail time. People should never do it. I do not condone it. But the actions of few ruin it for all.

Did you want to have this discussion "top side"? Because it is helping me observing it from another country's POV. Also, there is a graduate (alumnae) chapter of my sorority in Frankfurt, Germany near the US Military Base.

[VictoriaGermany]

Wow, so many replies over night I never imagined you all would be so interested in German fraternities/sororities. Okay, here we go with further information

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Thanks for your wonderful history lesson. You or someone in your organizations should write a brief ezine, or book about it. Seriously!

I am quite sure there are a lot of books about this topic. I will try to find out if some are available in English

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

It sounds like it is a Germanic heritage and cultural expression mechanism for Fraternities and Sororities.

SOME American fraternities and sororities that are closely associated with colleges and universities are based on various heritages and cultures. While there are some "stereotypes" that American fraternities and sororities have as "American historical pursuits and traditions" that we all get labeled as having, such as those seen "Animal House", "ABC GREEK" and "Stomp the Yard"; all are about doing wonderful things for individual members and the community.

Well, I am quite sure that the historical roots of the American fraternity/sorority system comes from Europe. But it is obvious that both models (the European and the American) developed completely different.
There are huge stereotypes about German fraternities and sororities as well: Forcing members to drink alcohol, being nazis etc.. Of course there are some members of fraternities who are politically incorrect and unfortunately their behaviour in public gives all of us a bad reputation. As our fraternity have a longer history than the sororities, different types of fraternities do exist:

The "Corps" are the oldest type of fraternity (some are over 200 years old). Academic fencing (they use sharp weapons and yes, you can get hurt) is an obligation for their members and one major principle is "tolerance". Therefore they do accept Non-German members as well.

The "Landsmannschaften" were historically groups of man from the same geographic area/region. Their members as well have to practise academic fencing.

The "Burschenschaften" are politically oriented. The developed in the first half of the 19th century and were fighting for a free nation. They were strongly involved in the "Wartburgfest" and the "Hambacher Fest". Sorry, I need to fresh up my history knowledge before I can go in detail.
Today, the "Burschenschaften" are more conservative and unfortunately some are very "German oriented". Yes, I guess some of them are nazis... Unfortunately these people give all fraternities/sororities a bad reputation.

The "Turnerschaften" were impressed by "Turnvater Jahn" and therefore do a lot of sports. They also practise the academic fencing, but not in every "Turnerschaft" it is an obligation.

The last major type of fraternities are the religious (mainly catholic) oriented fraternities. They refuse any kind of duel and therefore do not practise academic fencing.

By the way: All sororities in Germany are non-politically oriented, non-religious and they do not practise academic fencing.

I once read a newspaper article written by an American student in Germany who wrote about the tradition of academic fencing. I will try to find it and put the link in here

[KyleMcGuire1983]

[QUOTE=VictoriaGermany;1515706]
The "Burschenschaften" are politically oriented. The developed in the first half of the 19th century and were fighting for a free nation. They were strongly involved in the "Wartburgfest" and the "Hambacher Fest". Sorry, I need to fresh up my history knowledge before I can go in detail.
Today, the "Burschenschaften" are more conservative and unfortunately some are very "German oriented". Yes, I guess some of them are nazis... Unfortunately these people give all fraternities/sororities a bad reputation.
QUOTE]

I don't think there is anything wrong about being a nationalist or a patriot. I don't think a love of Germany and wanting to preserve German culture has anything to do with being a Nazi. Nazis are thugs and murderers....Nationalists just want to preserve their nation.

As for the comment about the Philippines......their Greek system is based on ours. For those of you who don't know the Philippines were an American colony from 1898 to 1946 and from what I understand their culture is to this day heavily effected by the United States.

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

I don't think there is anything wrong about being a nationalist or a patriot. I don't think a love of Germany and wanting to preserve German culture has anything to do with being a Nazi. Nazis are thugs and murderers....Nationalists just want to preserve their nation.

As for the comment about the Philippines......their Greek system is based on ours. For those of you who don't know the Philippines were an American colony from 1898 to 1946 and from what I understand their culture is to this day heavily effected by the United States.

In fact you are right: Most guys in fraternity have a stronger love for our country, they are more patriotic. But as I said: Some of them have opinions that have nothing to do with patriotism.

I heard this morning that there are also American oriented fraternities in Brasil. In Chile, however, they are having German oriented fraternities (Burschenschaften) which were founded by German immigrants.

[DUKyleXY]

As for the comment about the Philippines......their Greek system is based on ours. For those of you who don't know the Philippines were an American colony from 1898 to 1946 and from what I understand their culture is to this day heavily effected by the United States.

Unfortunately, many of the Philippines organizations decide to affiliate with an existing GLO without informing the GLO's HQ. We have/had a group in the Philippines claiming to be a chapter of Delta Upsilon International Fraternity. IHQ didn't know anything about them until I let them know that this group is even using our insignia and our trademarks. I do not know what has happened since I let our IHQ know, but they are not recognized by my Fraternity.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by DUKyleXY

Unfortunately, many of the Philippines organizations decide to affiliate with an existing GLO without informing the GLO's HQ. We have/had a group in the Philippines claiming to be a chapter of Delta Upsilon International Fraternity. IHQ didn't know anything about them until I let them know that this group is even using our insignia and our trademarks. I do not know what has happened since I let our IHQ know, but they are not recognized by my Fraternity.

is this the case within this story: http://www.gmanews.tv/story/59553/Fr...rs-slam-hazing

i see APhiO listed-is it a legit chapter or maybe the name was used for a local?

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by tld221

is this the case within this story: http://www.gmanews.tv/story/59553/Fr...rs-slam-hazing

i see APhiO listed-is it a legit chapter or maybe the name was used for a local?

APO Philippines and APO USA are both members of the International Council of Alpha Phi Omega.

We are essentially two separate organizations bound by ritual and history but not by governance. http://www.apo.org/show/National_Pro...he_World/ICAPO

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I think the issue here is in the United States: allegedly, we do have the "right to free association" as a Constitutional Bill of Right for all citizens... As I understand it, the E.U. has confirmed those rights as covenants and then added more.

*lol* Sure, we do have this right as well.

But there are rumours (and in one case proofs) that some fraternities (I guess only "Burschenschaften") are watched by the federal office for the protection of the constitution.
Danubia Munich has been watched by this authority after they allowed a friend to stay at their house without knowing that he had just murdered someone.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I think several entities after the WWII did not want the German citizens to EVER form any groups of change among the "educated" again.

That´s right. The other reason was that many frat brothers died in the war and not every fraternity had the chance to reopen.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

In the US, although the government legally cannot control who people associated with, they do require registration of large sums of money to be justified by a IRS federal taxes, such as 501c7 and 501c3 codes. And if one does not want their information, such as design of any insignia stolen, they must incorporate it through the Federal IRS and State Tax system. If events occur that block free access to locations, groups will get arrested for that without appropriate permits.

Fraternities or sororities do not have to register in Germany. Some register as a club to have a better controll on their money, but there is no control by the government.
The last sentence, we do have that as well

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

As far a dress, folks can wear whatever they want to, as long as it is not indecent exposure for the given weather climate and location. Although in the 1990's somewhere in the Northern California there was the "naked man"... And we also have the "homeless" bums that wear whatever...

Could you please explain the naked man and the homeless thing? I am not sure if I understood.

In German fraternities and sororities you are in general free to wear what you want. But for some occasions it is binding to wear a suit (or similar for the ladies). Besides this, most fraternities/sororities do wear a ribbon with their colours from the right shoulder to the left hip. Full members wear a ribbon with all three colours, new members usually have a ribbon with only 2 colours.
We also wear caps (e.g. http://www.maeser-couleur.de/bilder/klein_12_1.jpg) and a so-called "Zipfelbund" (http://www.wingolf.org/rostock/couleur/zipfel.jpg). By the way, it is a very nice tradition to exchange/dedicade a "Zipfel" to a good friend or someone you were fencing with.

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I think that in Germany, no one can EVER wear items reflecting WWII replicates... I could be wrong. Ironically, some folks in the US try wearing all the stuff here. They can be arrested, but more likely, they will be beat up... Or folks will have huge anger issue with that occurring.

Yeah, some items are forbidden. I don´t know if any frat guys are wearing them.
As mentioned before, some stupid guys destroyed the good reputation of fraternities and sororities in Germany. Some are caused by an incorrect political opinion and some by bad behaviour after drinking too much alcohol.
Today, I depends on the city if you can wear the colours of your fraternity/sorority in public. In the main student´s town, the student parliament is governed by the left wing who is more progessive and believing in any fraternity are only nazis. If you wear your colours in public (especially the ribbon) you will quite sure get beaten up.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by VictoriaGermany

Today, I depends on the city if you can wear the colours of your fraternity/sorority in public. In the main student´s town, the student parliament is governed by the left wing who is more progessive and believing in any fraternity are only nazis. If you wear your colours in public (especially the ribbon) you will quite sure get beaten up.

Are you for real?

Well, ich bin verde ein schmutzinger vogel sein *lol*

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Are you for real?

Well, ich bin verde ein schmutzinger vogel sein *lol*

I was refering to the typical university cities in Germany, e.g. Marburg, Göttingen, Heidelberg...

Sorry, but your German sentence doesn´t make sense. What do you mean by saying this?

[AOII Angel]

VictoriaGermany,

I can only speak for NPC sororities (you can look them up on google.) Women go through recruitment which is an organized event that allows women to get to know the sororities and the sororities to get to know the women. After this week, women are offered a "bid" to join. They are then known as New Members (formerly pledges.) The new member time for NPC groups was formerly one semester, but this has been shortened universally to 6-10 weeks (give or take a week.) This gives women time to get to know the history and traditions of their new sorority. If they do not like what they are learning, they can "disaffiliate." They would not be allowed to join another group (ie take another bid) for a full calendar year. Like German sororities, if you are kicked out of a chapter, you are not likely to get a bid from another. Initiation occurs after the New member period. At this time, the women are full members of the sorority. If you decide to disaffiliate after initiation, you may not join any other NPC sorority. Alumna status is conferred when a woman graduates or leaves school. If the woman marries or has children, she is also offered the choice to become an alumna rather than stay active. We hope that alumna stay involved for life. Our national/international organizations are run by our dedicated alumnae. We have many alumnae chapters throughout the US that allow women to meet with other alumnae in their area. Alumnae also support the local collegiate chapters. If you go to the NPC website, it has links to each NPC sorority. These sites can be very informative. Thanks for the information about German sororities. It has been fascinating!

[VictoriaGermany]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Women go through recruitment which is an organized event that allows women to get to know the sororities and the sororities to get to know the women. After this week, women are offered a "bid" to join. They are then known as New Members (formerly pledges.)

Alright. Our recruitment period is during the whole year, but - of course - in Autumn we have the best chances to get new members.
There isn´t really an event week or something, but we will have a booth at university this week as it is registration week.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The new member time for NPC groups was formerly one semester, but this has been shortened universally to 6-10 weeks (give or take a week.) This gives women time to get to know the history and traditions of their new sorority.

How do they learn about history and traditions of their new sorority? In Germany, one member of the sorority is responsible for the education of new members. She will give them regular lessons (once a week or once every fortnight). As I mentioned in another post: At the end they will have to pass an exam to proof they know enough about the sorority. As long as you are not fully accepted, you will only wear a ribbon with 2 colours. This will show other members of fraternities or sororities, that you are not fully accepted. And as long as you are "Fux/Fuchs/Fähe...", you are not allowed to visit other corporations on your own.
If you do so, the members of the other corporation can catch you and your sisters or brother have to buy you off with a lot of beer

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

If they do not like what they are learning, they can "disaffiliate." They would not be allowed to join another group (ie take another bid) for a full calendar year. Like German sororities, if you are kicked out of a chapter, you are not likely to get a bid from another.

I guess I wasn´t clear about that: As long as you left the sorority because it was your will, you can ask for acceptance at any other mixed corporation or sorority. And you don´t have to wait until next autumn or anything.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

We hope that alumna stay involved for life.

We do as well ;-)

quote=AOII Angel;1516247]We have many alumnae chapters throughout the US that allow women to meet with other alumnae in their area. [/quote]

As there is no umbrella organisation for the sororities in Germany, we do not have something like local chapters. But alumnae as well as active members are free to visit other sororities´events.