The link between Greek membership and social conservatism

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by summer_gphib

I think there is truth to that, but I also think that sororities and fraternities are steeped in tradition. That tradition has appeal to those who are more unwilling to embrace new ideas.

Or, perhaps, they are people who are open to embracing new ideas, but unwilling in the process to ignore or lose the wisdom of those who have gone before.

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

. . . but there is actually a rule in our consititution that forbade anyone from discussing politics or religion in the house (obvi we didn't always follow this, but the rule made sense and we tried to as best we could)

Originally Posted by Dionysus

The "no discussion of politics/religion" rule is a good idea...if people cannot be civil.

I would have been very uncomfortable with and put off by a rule like this. What kind of brotherhood could I experience in my fraternity if I was forbidden or discouraged from discussing the values -- spiritual and political -- that matter to me and that are an intrinsic part of who I am? To me this seems like a cop-out that deprives members of one of the lessons I value from my fraternity experience -- learning that I can still honestly call someone "brother" when we have different views.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by Dionysus

IOk. While a lot of NPHC Greeks are democrats, I still think a lot of you guys are on the socially conservative side also. Why do you think that is so?

First off, interesting topic, Dionysus.

I think Blacks on the whole are pretty socially conservative (a tactic Black Republicans use when explaining their alliance with the GOP) when it comes to issues of homosexuality and abortion ... in general, things that "threaten" the morality of an overwhelmingly Christian upbringing.

We tend to be liberal when it comes to issues that relate to oppression and unfairness.

I think this social conservatism is reflected in the members of our organizations. NPHC organizations may swing slightly to the left, but only because their members have generally been exposed to more education and liberal thinkingthan the average population.

[AlethiaSi]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I would have been very uncomfortable with and put off by a rule like this. What kind of brotherhood could I experience in my fraternity if I was forbidden or discouraged from discussing the values -- spiritual and political -- that matter to me and that are an intrinsic part of who I am? To me this seems like a cop-out that deprives members of one of the lessons I value from my fraternity experience -- learning that I can still honestly call someone "brother" when we have different views.

Like I said, we didn't always follow the "rule", it was more of a guideline. If it got out of hand (which it did on a few occasions, but it was mostly outsiders discussing with sisters) it was reinforcement that we should probably stay away from those topics for awhile. However, on the whole, I had really great enriching conversations with my sisters.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by AlethiaSi

Like I said, we didn't always follow the "rule", it was more of a guideline. If it got out of hand (which it did on a few occasions, but it was mostly outsiders discussing with sisters) it was reinforcement that we should probably stay away from those topics for awhile. However, on the whole, I had really great enriching conversations with my sisters.

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

[TSteven]

The Spirit of Sigma Chi, as conceived by the Founders more than 150 years ago yet visible and alive today, is based on the theory that...

... Friendship among members, sharing a common belief in an ideal, ...

... and possessing different temperaments, talents, and convictions, ...

... is superior to friendship among members having the same temperaments, talents, and convictions, and that. . .

... Genuine friendship can be maintained without surrendering the principle of individuality or sacrificing one's personal judgment.

"The Spirit" is a concept that comes straight from the founders' unfortunate experience in another fraternity, which the founders saw as a group focused on conformity for political gain. The founders wanted a spirit of nonconformity in Sigma Chi. Though "The Spirit" calls for men who are inherently "different," it is expected that the members, in their differences, remain responsible, honorable, gentlemanly, friendly -- indeed all those characteristics listed in "The Jordan Standard."

[AlethiaSi]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

I agree with you, I wish it didn't have to be that way.

[AlexMack]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I understand what you're saying. I would just rather learn how to talk about those things without it getting out of hand than feel like we had to "stay away from those topics for awhile."

As usual MysticCat is right on the nail. Why deal with the elephant in the room? If these organizations are for bettering ourselves (which I believe they are, there are certain skills I have learned from my chapter that I wouldn't have elsewhere), then I believe it's also necessary to discuss these topics and learn to be civil to one another. One thing I didn't care for during my active time was being told what to wear, what to say, where to go.
We had one republican in our chapter, whom we all adored. We had jewish girls who just wouldn't participate in the christian aspects of ritual, and who were allowed to observe their religion if it conflicted with a sorority function.

If someone told me I couldn't discuss politics or religion? Hello?! I'm a poli sci major! The only times to avoid it are during recruitment.

[LatinaAlumna]

Originally Posted by Kevin

In my experience, on the whole, members of fraternities and sororities grew up in fairly well-off families. Such families tend to raise kids with conservative values.

You mean, families like the Hilton's? The Richies? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. )

I think it largely depends on region. I don't see many wealthy families in CA raising conservative kids.

[Dionysus]

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

You mean, families like the Hilton's? The Richies? (Sorry, I couldn't resist. )

I think it largely depends on region. I don't see many wealthy families in CA raising conservative kids.

Yeah, and I know many working class people who are quite conservative. I think wealthy families are more likely to be fiscally conservative, but I'm not sure about being more socially conservative.

[Benzgirl]

I am from a very liberal area of the Midwest, and even though some of us are the wicked "L" word, we too have traditions and values. I reminds me of the Murphy Brown/Dan Quayle debate on family values.

There are areas of the midwest that is considered Conservative, but the residents are very poor and uneducated, just as other areas are wealthy and educated. And, the South is considered Conservative whether people are Greek or not. Just look at the Red/Green maps from the last presidential election. I agree with what is said about depending on the area of the country or the house.

One the reasons I joined a sorority was the opportunity for leadership, and last I checked there were both Conservative and Liberal parties in leadership roles of the government. Another reason I joined was the ability to be an individual part of the whole. Maybe it was just my sorority, but my sisters allowed me to be me, and they didn't just accept it, they embraced it. It was a wonderful experience.

[skylark]

Originally Posted by LatinaAlumna

In my experience, I haven't run into too many conservative LGLO members (with the exception of some from Texas). I'd say the vast majority of LGLO members that I know personally are liberals.

I agree... that was why I was asking. If they aren't included in the statistic that would be highly likely to make it skewed, I think.

[violetpretty]

This is from my NPC perspective:

I think it has to do with how sororities are portrayed to the general population. How do they see us? Think of every sorority stereotype. Rich, exclusive, obsessed with looks, only in college to find a husband, parties, objectifying ourselves, etc. We are part of "the establishment" to the general population. I think conservatives tend to be more attracted to (or at least more okay with) this image than liberals.

However, if sororities were perceived as organizations to develop female leaders, organizations that are based on non-political values like friendship, loyalty, service, scholarship, etc. our chapters would be composed of a more representative microcosm of the particular campus.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by Little32

Right and I think for some just the notion of a sorority, with all that is implicit in that, seems conservative. Also, I am sure that Delta as an organization has certain expectations surrounding behaviors and activities where members are concerned that many do feel are conservative. It is a difficult conversation to have because the idea of conservatism is so broad--and I am willing to bet that we were not much of a consideration in much of the research anyway.

Originally Posted by skylark

I certainly haven't observed that NPC and IFC fraternities and sororities tend to attract more conservative people (my sorority had many liberal people, and this was in a very conservative red state). However, I do see that the fact that sororities and fraternities may attract people from higher income levels, which may make sense with the original poster's claims. One thing I would be curious about is whether there were "christian" sororities and fraternities included in the statistics. That would certainly make the statistics come out more conservative, I think. Also, are the Latino/Latina and African-American groups included? If not, this might make the statistics skewed, as well (since at least I've heard that NPC and IFC frats and sororities tend to be whiter than the average college population, unfortunately).

i havent made up my mind on the topic, but pretty much any statistical data on greeks is going to include (or exclude) the groups necessary to prove a point. then again, that's statistical research for you.

while i could turn a blind eye to such findings as it excludes anyone outside NPC/IFC/NIC, it makes sense. i would imagine any GLO outside such councils (though its obvi that NPHC has made its mark, enough that we SHOULD be included) would be excluded because they themselves WERE the excluded, and therefore being non-conservative. and if NPHC/NALFO were excluded in said study because were arent "traditional" enough to be considered, then religious/LGBT-based orgs SURELY wouldnt. i suppose we're to believe that if youre not part of the mainstream orgs (whether by choice or circumstance) , then you're probably not "conservative."

hmm,im gonna haveto comeback to this... dont know if im making much sense.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Little32

Also, I am sure that Delta as an organization has certain expectations surrounding behaviors and activities where members are concerned that many do feel are conservative.

But then not really, because imo we have done a good job in changing our old protocols to today's way of dress, and have broadened them to basically just saying wear your symbols with respect.

As for behaviors, I don't think a prohibition against public drunkeness, or not running to the store with rollers in your hair while wearing letters would be considered conservative--just common sense. And what internal dress codes we still use or more ritualistic rather that a matter of liberalism or conservatism. Because there is a special meaning behind them--know only to us.

And again I will point to our social action thrust and the issues we endorse are not socially conservative by anyone's definition. For example No Child Left Behind. We are still a sorority where the majority of our members are in the field of education. And as an organization, we challenged the Act, because of what it would mean in communities of color.

Another example, when I was on the national board we invited Clarence Thomas to speak with us before his confirmation. (He had been a law student of one of our past national presidents.) We challenged him on his views and although we cannot endorse candidates, he knew that the message would go out that we did not support the issues he championed. (And neither did his old law professor who was the first Black woman appointed to the US Civil Rights Commission.)

This is not to say that we don't have conservative members in our sorority who are also given the opportunity to express their views, but when it comes right down to our resolutions the over whelming majority vote on the ones that are socially liberal.

So again, I think it boils down to one's definition of liberalism and conservatism. But to me Delta is a liberal and very tolerant organization.

[Scandia]

Violetpretty- But stereotypes such as partying, drinking too much, not being financially responsible, and being wild in more than one aspect are applied, then this would probably lean more towards liberals. As I said before, my relatives are very conservative and very opposed to GLOs. Some due to this perceived behavior, some because they think "it's buying your friends", some because of actual bad experiences with them in practice.