NOLA - 2 years later

[AKA_Monet]

Kevin,

Sweetheart, maybe it is an engineering feat some people have to build it right... To make it right which they should have done in the first place, but did not because back then when the levees were built, some places were built better than other places because of skin color. Let's be honest. Now, it is a different day and age. Natural Disasters are equal opportunity killers. It does not matter WHO you are or what you look like, they come. And when they do, the best we can do is help the helpless become prepared. Might I say it is the Christian thing to do in America.

Should it cost that much for the "sins of the past"? Well, how much is your livelihood and homestead worth to you if you lost EVERYTHING in the land of the free and home of the brave?

I live under 3 volcanoes now. 1 currently active. If the biggest one explodes, there will be mini-Earthquakes for a solid year+ building up in intensity. At least that is what the USGS and volcanologists tell me.

I also live under a wind-storm prone area with 100 mph+ winds that knock big trees over. And, I live under constant deluge of rain, and it snows in the winter. The tiny bit of sunshine I get enthuses me to relish in it and makes this place bearable. I did not choose to live here. But my "heart" is here, I must follow him. Would I trade now?

Hayle no! But, if I lost my house due to a natural disaster, and I did not have the money, I expect my democratically elected government both Feds, State and local to do all they can for me to get me and my family back upon my feet. Especially after I am paying State Farm, USAA, etc. all THAT money for something...

And Earthquake insurance, what a rip. Your house has to blow up due to gas leaks for them to pay... So, if you smell gas, light a match?

And insurances, do not pay for a DMZ in a US city... It is not suppose to be that bad in the US...

But the irony, it is. And if anything that beoytch Hurricane Katrina uncovered the corruption that the entire World saw and they were shocked...

Everyone was and is culpable for that...

Should you and I the taxpayer pay for this? How come some Corporations do not step up? Namely ExxonMobile who owes Lousiana and Mississippi state taxes for their offshore platforms. Hayle BP--they've got money and might pay it. Dubai ports world might pay it as an investment. And you have all these illegal immigrant workers, make their resident countries do a deal--like Citgo--Hugo Chavez wanted to help anyways... The local reconstruction companies could use some benefits.

It just sounds like folks are clueless about restructuring and improvements. They want the same life. The reality is, they will NEVER have the same life. But, what we all can do is get to a BETTER life than before... Promote promise... And realistically, not everyone will have it, but we can dream.

One must understand that we are dealing with a broken people--some folks like my Soror AKA2D has not given up, she works very hard to make it everyday as a teacher. But there are others, that want to fall. Our job, as cheerleaders, it to make sure they keep rising and keep that vision.

Hurricane Katrina may have beayotch slapped the area, but she did not hurt our American resolve.

We, the people, can do better!

[Sugar08]

Soror AKA_Monet... I think I ::heart:: you.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Kevin,

Sweetheart, maybe it is an engineering feat some people have to build it right... To make it right which they should have done in the first place, but did not because back then when the levees were built, some places were built better than other places because of skin color. Let's be honest. Now, it is a different day and age. Natural Disasters are equal opportunity killers. It does not matter WHO you are or what you look like, they come. And when they do, the best we can do is help the helpless become prepared. Might I say it is the Christian thing to do in America.

Should it cost that much for the "sins of the past"? Well, how much is your livelihood and homestead worth to you if you lost EVERYTHING in the land of the free and home of the brave?

I live under 3 volcanoes now. 1 currently active. If the biggest one explodes, there will be mini-Earthquakes for a solid year+ building up in intensity. At least that is what the USGS and volcanologists tell me.

I also live under a wind-storm prone area with 100 mph+ winds that knock big trees over. And, I live under constant deluge of rain, and it snows in the winter. The tiny bit of sunshine I get enthuses me to relish in it and makes this place bearable. I did not choose to live here. But my "heart" is here, I must follow him. Would I trade now?

Hayle no! But, if I lost my house due to a natural disaster, and I did not have the money, I expect my democratically elected government both Feds, State and local to do all they can for me to get me and my family back upon my feet. Especially after I am paying State Farm, USAA, etc. all THAT money for something...

And Earthquake insurance, what a rip. Your house has to blow up due to gas leaks for them to pay... So, if you smell gas, light a match?

And insurances, do not pay for a DMZ in a US city... It is not suppose to be that bad in the US...

But the irony, it is. And if anything that beoytch Hurricane Katrina uncovered the corruption that the entire World saw and they were shocked...

Everyone was and is culpable for that...

Should you and I the taxpayer pay for this? How come some Corporations do not step up? Namely ExxonMobile who owes Lousiana and Mississippi state taxes for their offshore platforms. Hayle BP--they've got money and might pay it. Dubai ports world might pay it as an investment. And you have all these illegal immigrant workers, make their resident countries do a deal--like Citgo--Hugo Chavez wanted to help anyways... The local reconstruction companies could use some benefits.

It just sounds like folks are clueless about restructuring and improvements. They want the same life. The reality is, they will NEVER have the same life. But, what we all can do is get to a BETTER life than before... Promote promise... And realistically, not everyone will have it, but we can dream.

One must understand that we are dealing with a broken people--some folks like my Soror AKA2D has not given up, she works very hard to make it everyday as a teacher. But there are others, that want to fall. Our job, as cheerleaders, it to make sure they keep rising and keep that vision.

Hurricane Katrina may have beayotch slapped the area, but she did not hurt our American resolve.

We, the people, can do better!

[DaemonSeid]

This sez more about why we need to take the 50 bil. that Bush wants to spend across seas and spend it down there


But much of New Orleans still looks like a wasteland, with businesses shuttered and houses abandoned. Basic services such as schools, libraries, public transportation and childcare are at half their original levels and only two-thirds of the region's licensed hospitals are open. Workers are often scarce. Rents have skyrocketed. Crime is rampant.

Along Mississippi's 70-mile shoreline, harsh economic realities are hampering rebuilding. Cities like Biloxi and Pascagoula are making progress, but areas nearer to Katrina's original landfall look barely improved, with most oceanfront lots still vacant and weedy.

Many projects are hamstrung by the soaring costs of construction and insurance, while federal funding has been slow to flow to cities. Other economic indicators are down — such as population, employment and housing supplies.

The performance by the president and the federal government in the immediate aftermath of the storm severely dented Bush's image as a take-charge leader. So, as on other visits, the president and his team arrived here armed with facts and figures to show how much the Bush administration has done to fulfill his promise 2 1/2 weeks after the storm that "we will do what it takes, we will stay as long as it takes, to help citizens rebuild."



http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070830/...ush_katrina_28

[DaemonSeid]

Bush asking for more cash to waste

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070829...s_070829152140

[KSig RC]

I don't really want to side with Kevin here at all, but I do have a question - if these people can't get/afford insurance, then aren't the citizens who live elsewhere effectively "insuring" the area through tax dollars?

Why is this something the government should have anything to do with?

Disaster funds are one thing - getting people back onto their feet with some assistance is a great idea, and a necessary duty of government. Doesn't it seem like the NO funding requests are going far beyond this, though, and toward propping people up rather than extending a helping hand?

Additionally, why do we act like insurance is some sort of right? That undermines what insurance really is supposed to be: pooling risk among a group. Insurance in this nation is beyond F-ed, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend the concept is something totally different.

EDIT: Daemon, seriously guy, don't you get why those things are not at all related to each other? You're beating a dead horse here. Start a new thread if you really think NO funding is being quashed by the war effort, and show some evidence of that.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I don't really want to side with Kevin here at all, but I do have a question - if these people can't get/afford insurance, then aren't the citizens who live elsewhere effectively "insuring" the area through tax dollars?

Ok, why are people overlooking the fact that these people PAID TAXES and many still are? Were they not "insuring" others across the nation who received federal assistance for other natural disasters?

Also, it's not a matter of affording insurance. People based their decisions of whether or not to purchase a policy on federal government reports.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Why is this something the government should have anything to do with?

See above.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Disaster funds are one thing - getting people back onto their feet with some assistance is a great idea, and a necessary duty of government. Doesn't it seem like the NO funding requests are going far beyond this, though, and toward propping people up rather than extending a helping hand?

Why does it seem this way to you? It doesn't seem this way to me. I haven't had the opportunity to go back, but my best friend spent several weeks in NO for a journalism workshop and said it's pretty much a ghost town in a lot of the city. There are many, many places where it looks like the hurricane hit yesterday. "A helping hand" isn't going to do the trick.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Additionally, why do we act like insurance is some sort of right? That undermines what insurance really is supposed to be: pooling risk among a group. Insurance in this nation is beyond F-ed, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend the concept is something totally different.

It's not about insurance, it's about responsibility. These people are U.S. citizens who are unable to make something out of nothing, and people living 1500+ miles away seem to be having trouble comprehending that. The purpose of the government is to protect the citizens, and right now the federal government (as well as local and state) is failing.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Ok, why are people overlooking the fact that these people PAID TAXES and many still are? Were they not "insuring" others across the nation who received federal assistance for other natural disasters?

OK, but people who live in, say, the Pacific Northwest are paying in with a disproportional chance of getting anything back - it's not an equal pool, it runs downhill toward places with more risk. Turning the government into a giant insurer sounds like a recipe for disaster, and something that's well outside the bounds of what the government was founded for. Also, I'm not judging NOLA citizens for asking for the money or taking what they're offered, just saying that the concept seems flawed to me inherently.

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Also, it's not a matter of affording insurance. People based their decisions of whether or not to purchase a policy on federal government reports.

I've never heard this before this thread, and it's very interesting - are there any particular reports I should read to fill myself in?

Is the concept that the government intentionally misled people in a fashion that prevented them from buying insurance?

Originally Posted by Sugar08

Why does it seem this way to you? It doesn't seem this way to me. I haven't had the opportunity to go back, but my best friend spent several weeks in NO for a journalism workshop and said it's pretty much a ghost town in a lot of the city. There are many, many places where it looks like the hurricane hit yesterday. "A helping hand" isn't going to do the trick.

I wasn't clear here, so I'll fill in some more - I think we go past the "helping hand" stage when we do anything beyond the most efficient and expedient solution to help people get on their feet. For this reason, I'm sure many people aren't even getting the 'helping hand' benefit (such as the ghost town areas), but on the whole the plan seems somewhat ostentatious. Wouldn't the simplest solution be to leave the areas with the worst damage alone, give funds to move people elsewhere (not even another city, but out of these areas) and fund things like jobs programs?

I'm certainly no disaster relief expert, but the desire to rebuild then upgrade seems like a terrible plan in terms of efficiency - thus, it must be catering to something beyond just getting people back on their feet. There is no requirement that anyone be allowed to live in a certain part of New Orleans, and it's not the government's job to guarantee that, right?

If a "helping hand" won't do the trick . . . what will? And why should that excessive amount of effort go into it? I've been to NO exactly twice in my life, and loved it both times, but I'm trying to get to where we talk about exactly what the government's duties entail, rather than wishcasting a return to a pre-Katrina state.

Originally Posted by Sugar08

It's not about insurance, it's about responsibility. These people are U.S. citizens who are unable to make something out of nothing, and people living 1500+ miles away seem to be having trouble comprehending that. The purpose of the government is to protect the citizens, and right now the federal government (as well as local and state) is failing.

If it's about responsibility, you'll have to fill me in on how the government is responsible - unless you mean fulfilling their responsibility to the citizens of NO, which makes sense but seems like a completely different discussion wholly unrelated to the point I was making.

I agree that people cannot make something from nothing - that's my whole point, that the effort should be made to give people enough to make something . . . I just wonder if we're not giving more, and whether there are better ways to handle this sort of thing.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I don't really want to side with Kevin here at all, but I do have a question - if these people can't get/afford insurance, then aren't the citizens who live elsewhere effectively "insuring" the area through tax dollars?

Why is this something the government should have anything to do with?

Disaster funds are one thing - getting people back onto their feet with some assistance is a great idea, and a necessary duty of government. Doesn't it seem like the NO funding requests are going far beyond this, though, and toward propping people up rather than extending a helping hand?

Additionally, why do we act like insurance is some sort of right? That undermines what insurance really is supposed to be: pooling risk among a group. Insurance in this nation is beyond F-ed, but that doesn't mean we have to pretend the concept is something totally different.

EDIT: Daemon, seriously guy, don't you get why those things are not at all related to each other? You're beating a dead horse here. Start a new thread if you really think NO funding is being quashed by the war effort, and show some evidence of that.

Im sorry I must be 'stupid'

Bush paying lipservice in NOLA on the same day while asking for money from Congress that the US may not have so it can be spent elsewhere on top of the billions already being wasted and you need me to show evidence....?

They are NOT related?

Ok.

Let me say this again slowly...

You
Don't
See
These
Stories
Coming
Out of
Florida


and it gets hit regularly by hurricanes....and when the governor asks for money...he gets it....

and we arent even gonna get into the wildfires that seem to be happening yearly out in the midwest.

So WHY 2 years later and NOLA still looks a hot mess?

Reading in between the lines is indeed Fundamental

[KSig RC]

Sorry for the double-post, but the last one was long . . .

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Im sorry I must be 'stupid'

Bush paying lipservice in NOLA on the same day while asking for money from Congress that the US may not have so it can be spent elsewhere on top of the billions already being wasted and you need me to show evidence....?

They are NOT related?

Ok.

Let me say this again slowly...

You
Don't
See
These
Stories
Coming
Out of
Florida


and it gets hit regularly by hurricanes....and when the governor asks for money...he gets it....

and we arent even gonna get into the wildfires that seem to be happening yearly out in the midwest.

So WHY 2 years later and NOLA still looks a hot mess?

Reading in between the lines is indeed Fundamental

Don't be a dick about this - how absurd. Let me give you a similarly douchey response:

Say
what
you
really
mean.

You make innuendos about the difference between NO and FL, but give no real idea of comparison - I'm pretty sure Katrina did more damage to NO than any hurricane has ever done to a comparable city in FL. The freaking city was largely uninhabitable afterwards. You don't see FL saying this because the comparison probably isn't valid.

So what are you really implying? A racial bias? A preference toward his brother's state? Hell, these things might be accurate, but if that's the discussion, discuss that.

As far as comparing the war, there's zero evidence that the war has prevented any work on the city of New Orleans. There's no evidence that stopping the war tomorrow would lead to significant changes in New Orleans.

Just because the money for the war is misspent, it doesn't mean money is being taken from other places - this is simplified, obviously, but the concept is deficit spending. The US Government has probably made massive mistakes regarding rebuilding New Orleans, but these mistakes exist independent of the war effort. Argue that you would rather have that money for NO if you want, but don't act like I am the retard for asking you for actual discussion and support for your views.

Sugar08 is a great example for arguing your side with actual information, instead of inferring that I'm the simpleton. I guarantee you I am not.