Is it time to change who we think of as legacies?

[SoCalGirl]

Here's a link to our Legacy Policy on the public portion of the site. http://www.sigmakappa.org/join/defau...t&page2=legacy The Private Side has a more detailed description of everything in the VPR Handbook.

I find it interesting, especially since I never thought twice about it before, that SK includes step-nieces. Does anyone else?

I also was interested by the fact that AOII listed adopted relations. I wouldn't think to not automatically include adopted relations so I was surprised that it needed to be specified.

One of my chapter sisters was adopted along with her identical twin sister. They went to different schools and her sister went ZTA. It never occured to me that their younger sister, bio-daughter of their parents, could possibly not be considered a legacy to both groups.

[Buttonz]

I would never think that an adopted sibling/daughter/grand daughter etc wouldn't be considered a legacy. IMO, thats just wrong, they are as much family as a biological sibling/daughter/grand daughter etc. What if someone can't have kids? Then the kids that they adopt aren't legacies?

[Faith4Keep]

Originally Posted by SoCalGirl

One of my chapter sisters was adopted along with her identical twin sister. They went to different schools and her sister went ZTA. It never occured to me that their younger sister, bio-daughter of their parents, could possibly not be considered a legacy to both groups.

Hmmm what an interesting question. Would their younger sister be a legacy? I wonder if a HQ has ever tackled THAT issue, or how that would be specified... adopted sisters??

[adpiucf]

Adopted sisters are legally sisters. So yes. Carnation has several adopted children who have joined sororities. Their younger siblings are all legacies to their adopted sisters' sororities, as well as being a legacy to Carnation's sorority. If you legally share the same parents, you're sisters.

ETA: Step-siblings, however, are not automatically counted as legacies in many sororities. I think this is changing with many groups, as blended families are becoming more of the norm.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Faith4Keep

Hmmm what an interesting question. Would their younger sister be a legacy? I wonder if a HQ has ever tackled THAT issue, or how that would be specified... adopted sisters??

ASA legacy policy includes adopted and step families.

[ErinIsBadNews]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

What groups include more than daughters, sisters, and grand-daughters?

"Phi Mu defines a legacy as a sister, half-sister, step-sister, daughter, step-daughter, granddaughter or great-granddaughter of a Phi Mu (living or deceased)."

I didn't realize we counted great-granddaughters! Have we always?

[AZ-AlphaXi]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

What groups include more than daughters, sisters, and grand-daughters?

Alpha Xi Delta includes nieces and step-relatives ... providing the Alpha Xi requests it.

[MSKKG]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Also, Chi Omega's policy of not including grandmothers is interesting, because your mom was a legacy, and she either continued the tradition or didn't. If sh did, you are a legacy through your mom, and if she didn't, then maybe Chi Omega isn't that important to your family.

Not always the case. If your mom went to a university with no Chi O chapter, that doesn't mean Chi O wasn't important to her family. If your mom didn't pledge any GLO for whatever reason, that still doesn't mean Chi O wasn't important to her family. Also, what if Chi O released her? Chi O might have been high on your mom's list, but she was never given the chance to become a member because of the chapter's choice.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by MSKKG

Not always the case. If your mom went to a university with no Chi O chapter, that doesn't mean Chi O wasn't important to her family. If your mom didn't pledge any GLO for whatever reason, that still doesn't mean Chi O wasn't important to her family. Also, what if Chi O released her? Chi O might have been high on your mom's list, but she was never given the chance to become a member because of the chapter's choice.

I agree. It could also be your paternal grandmother who is the member. Your father couldn't have joined that GLO, but it doesn't mean that your family is any less dedicated.

On how many campuses is this really an issue? It sounds like it is mainly the SEC. I know for sure that it hasn't been a problem at any of the chapters I've supervised (Northeast region, primarily). If most of the northern chapters get 2 or 3 legacies going through recruitment, they are thrilled. While I can see some value in NPC having a round table discussion about the issue at those campuses, I would see it mainly as a brainstorming type session. Unless they did toss around the idea of legacy additions, the rest of it is ultimately up to each GLO to deal with. Does every GLO change their whole legacy policy because of a few chapters?

I think maybe educating the membership that some campuses have more legacies than quota would ease the hurt feelings at least.

[SoCalGirl]

I think "free legacy" quota would be an even better reason to blindly cut legacies of other chapters.

[EEKappa]

Originally Posted by AGDee

On how many campuses is this really an issue? It sounds like it is mainly the SEC. I know for sure that it hasn't been a problem at any of the chapters I've supervised (Northeast region, primarily). If most of the northern chapters get 2 or 3 legacies going through recruitment, they are thrilled.

Great point! The chapters that I hear of the "more legacies than quota" issue are in Texas, and no where else. As a regional alumnae officer, I'm cc:d on the chapter reports in my region (northeast) and legacies going through recruitment are rarely more than 8 or 10 per chapter.

Kappa's legacy definition is sisters, daughters, granddaughters and great granddaughters. "All other relatives are considered to have special ties to Kappa but are not recruited as a legacy."

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by EEKappa

Great point! The chapters that I hear of the "more legacies than quota" issue are in Texas, and no where else. As a regional alumnae officer, I'm cc:d on the chapter reports in my region (northeast) and legacies going through recruitment are rarely more than 8 or 10 per chapter.

I can't speak for any other sorority, but I know that the ADPi Chapter at Auburn University has this problem every year. I've heard they typically have about 1 1/2 x quota worth of legacies go through Recruitment. Alabama's ADPi legacies is increasing each year as well. I believe last year we had nearly 1/2 of quota, the most ever.

ADPi's legacy policy includes sisters, daughters, granddaughters and great-granddaughters. Being adopted doesn't matter. If a pnm was adopted into a family, she is part of that family and entitled to the legacy status.

Steps can be a little tricky. Our general policy is to consider them legacies but leave it up to the individual Chapters to make their own determination on a case by case basis. The vast majority of the time we consider them legacies, but every once in a while a unique situation pops up.

Here's an example I believe I've shared on GC before but it's worth repeating. A few years back we had an active whose father married a woman with a daughter in a whirlwind courtship the previous year. The active barely knew the woman or her daughter and she didn't like them at all.

The pnm step sister didn't tell the active step sister she was going through Recruitment. The pnm reported on her registration form that she was a legacy through the active and had alums write recs identifying her as such without the active's knowledge. The active came to me and asked that she not be considered a legacy. After getting approval from a higher up, we abided by the active's wishes.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by AGDee

On how many campuses is this really an issue? It sounds like it is mainly the SEC. I know for sure that it hasn't been a problem at any of the chapters I've supervised (Northeast region, primarily). If most of the northern chapters get 2 or 3 legacies going through recruitment, they are thrilled. While I can see some value in NPC having a round table discussion about the issue at those campuses, I would see it mainly as a brainstorming type session. Unless they did toss around the idea of legacy additions, the rest of it is ultimately up to each GLO to deal with. Does every GLO change their whole legacy policy because of a few chapters?

I think maybe educating the membership that some campuses have more legacies than quota would ease the hurt feelings at least.

Dee, that's exactly what I'm asking. Maybe those chapters/campuses need to change their individual policies or at the very least say that legacy status is so common there that it alone won't help a girl get a bid.

These legacy policies weren't as much of a problem when a great many women going to college dropped out of school after 1-2 years to marry - their spots opened up and there were plenty of women to fill them. Nowadays that's very rare. We're in the 00s and using policies from the 50s.

And I agree with SoCalGirl, a "free legacy" policy would make the cutting of legacies from their non-legacy group even worse.

[UGAalum94]

I don't think free legacies would be a particularly good policy, but why do you think it would make the cutting of other groups legacies worse?

(If your group wants her, they want her whether or not she's a legacy elsewhere; if they don't want her, what difference will it make to them that she can be "free" someplace else? I'm not trying to be a smarty pants; I'm just missing something. Are you thinking that all other groups would assume that she'll go the legacy chapter whether they really are her first choice or not?)

Personally, a GLO could have a form letter that included data from the high number of legacy chapter and the legacy policy that those chapters could send back to whoever sent the legacy form as soon as they received it. It could basically say in raw form:

We're delighted to learn of your legacy coming through recruitment, and we look forward to meeting her. We have not yet begun to evaluate potential new members, but we wanted to give you a clear understanding of the challenge that our chapter faces regarding legacies.

We understand the unique role they can play in the overall richness of life as an XYZ, but in the last few years, we've had 83, 102, and 78 legacies participate in recruitment while quota has been around 50. We will follow the XYZ legacy policy throughout our recruitment, but we wanted all members with legacies to be aware that it will be impossible for all of them to be placed in our new member class. Please encourage your legacy to keep an open mind about recruitment at our university; we have many excellent chapters for your legacy to join in should she not find a home in XYZ.

And a similar letter could be from campuses which have to cut a significant number of legacies a year.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Personally, a GLO could have a form letter that included data from the high number of legacy chapter and the legacy policy that those chapters could send back to whoever sent the legacy form as soon as they received it. It could basically say in raw form:

We're delighted to learn of your legacy coming through recruitment, and we look forward to meeting her. We have not yet begun to evaluate potential new members, but we wanted to give you a clear understanding of the challenge that our chapter faces regarding legacies.

We understand the unique role they can play in the overall richness of life as an XYZ, but in the last few years, we've had 83, 102, and 78 legacies participate in recruitment while quota has been around 50. We will follow the XYZ legacy policy throughout our recruitment, but we wanted all members with legacies to be aware that it will be impossible for all of them to be placed in our new member class. Please encourage your legacy to keep an open mind about recruitment at our university; we have many excellent chapters for your legacy to join in should she not find a home in XYZ.

And a similar letter could be from campuses which have to cut a significant number of legacies a year.

Excellent!