Poaching Legacies

[KSUViolet06]

I wouldn't say we go out of our way to "steal" legacies from each other, It's sort of a friendly competition sort of thing. I'll admit I get excited when I hear that another chapter's legacy is coming back for the next round (especially if the girl is an in-house legacy)

Some chapters take it more seriously than others.

During 2005 recruitment, there was an in-house legacy going through (her older sister was a current active member of XYZ). Everybody in that sorority was so sure that this PNM was going to go XYZ that they hadn't even bothered following silence rules with her during rush. Well imagine their shock when they got their lists for 3rd party and saw that she wasn't on it. Yes, she had DROPPED her own sister's sorority. What made them even more mad was that she was returning to us. An XYZ active had the nerve to IM one of our girls and ask us to CUT her. She forwarded the IM to a PHC and they got a HUGE infraction. It turns out that the plan was for them to secretly ask every chapter she went to to drop her before Pref, so she could end up returning to them only (via Drop with Regret). I'm not even sure how they figured that we would agree to cut this girl OR how they thought this whole 'plot' was going to work, but it didn't.

[AnchorAlumna]

It's kinda neat when another sorority's legacy comes back to you. But then your sorority's legacies are bound to go elsewhere, too.
We did have a great-great-great niece of a founder cut us after first round. We were disappointed she didn't even give us a chance. Oh, well.

[AChiOhSnap]

I do appreciate the challenge of "poaching" a legacy, as it were, but I've had more frustrating experiences with that than anything.

For every legacy we've poached, we've had many more legacies string us along, which is frustrating. We've had many legacies come through and go out of their way to swear that they weren't just interested in their sister's/mom's/cousin's chapter, and in some cases emphasizing that they weren't interested in their family member's chapter at all (trust me, this information was offered by the PNM without prodding on our part, we knew better than to ask).

So of course we have to take that at face value. Since we liked these girls, we kept them, and kept them, at the expense of another woman who wanted to be there. Of course, it was telling when the legacy would go out of her way to let the other chapters know that she didn't really want her family member's chapter, only to pref at AXO and her legacy chapter - hmm..... Later, we found out that most of these women only wanted their legacy chapter all along and were "grooming" us to be the fallback chapter in case the legacy chapter didn't work out.

Their insincere interest is really frustrating. It's better for a legacy PNM to just keep their mouth shut and avoid the subject than to fake enthusiasm for a chapter or to lie about their legacy chapter. I mean, yeah, I'm sure these legacy PNMs might have been worried they'd be heavily cut for their legacy status, but we honestly thought that some of these women were interested in Alpha Chi for it's own sake due to how enthusiastic they appeared, not just interested in us a distant second to their legacy chapter.

Anyway, sorry for the rant, I know it's kind of an unfair generalization but I'm kind of bitter about those experiences.

[carnation]

One reason I wondered: I know of so many legacies being cut early on by their legacy chapters. Since the sororities usually don't know where a PNM is returning (at least at really big schools), it seems like a lot of girls are being cut because the other groups assume that they're headed for a bid from their legacy chapters, when actually they were cut after first invitationals.

[honeychile]

If I were NPC Queen for a Day, and had the power to change the minds & actions of every chapter (!), I would open the eyes of every sister and make them realize that the Legacy system has somehow got to expand!

In the last year alone, I've heard of chapters who literally had more legacies than Quota R-ing, legacies who were cut by their mothers'/sisters' chapter just prior to Pref, IN HOUSE legacies cut, and all sorts of nasty R-ing. It's got to stop, and the sooner, the better.

Maybe those schools with more legacies that Quota need to add another chapter - it blows my mind that schools who have over 200 members only have 9-10 chapters! In the long run, that's probably the same amount of PNMs involved as, say Illinois or Penn State. ADD A CHAPTER - it will NOT hurt your prestige!! Maybe some of the double legacies will have a better chance, because that new chapter will be a legacy chapter, too!

Well, I could go on and on, as the legacy situation as it stands is my pet peeve, but I have a 60th wedding anniversary to attend. Expect me to add more later!!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe those schools with more legacies that Quota need to add another chapter - it blows my mind that schools who have over 200 members only have 9-10 chapters! In the long run, that's probably the same amount of PNMs involved as, say Illinois or Penn State. ADD A CHAPTER - it will NOT hurt your prestige!! Maybe some of the double legacies will have a better chance, because that new chapter will be a legacy chapter, too!

This would actually decrease quota...not sure I understand how that would help.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

This would actually decrease quota...not sure I understand how that would help.

Because if (random example) the rushee at LSU is both a KKG and AXO legacy, and they add AXO, that would be another place for her to go to.

The prob is, at the type of school's honeychile's talking about, all the info I've gotten from GC makes me believe they could add every other NPC group that isn't there and it wouldn't help the situation. These girls want to be XYZ (or maybe 1 or 2 other groups) or nothing at all.

A lot of this has to start with the parents, too - if they bring their daughter up believing that Mu Mu is the best sorority, PERIOD, regardless of the chapter or who the girl/sisters like at rush, they might be setting her up for a lot of unhappiness.

[ThetaPrincess24]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

This would actually decrease quota...not sure I understand how that would help.

It would decrease quota with each recruitment but in time it would also make each chapter smaller as well which I think is what she is getting at. Chapters at my school were capped at 70 members. I liked it because I learned who everyone was. I may not have been close to everyone, but I knew everyone and a few things about each one. I cant imagine what it must be like with a chapter with 200 members!

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe those schools with more legacies that Quota need to add another chapter - it blows my mind that schools who have over 200 members only have 9-10 chapters! In the long run, that's probably the same amount of PNMs involved as, say Illinois or Penn State. ADD A CHAPTER - it will NOT hurt your prestige!!

I have to agree with you Honeychile, but a chapter with 70 members can't support the big houses that these big big chapters have at a lot of schools. Also, it's the PNMS who drop out rather than pledge a newer or smaller chapter. Example: Ole Miss, which has tried and tried to keep chapters, but they just can't pledge enough and there is no where else to build a house. There are chapters at Ole Miss, Alabama and Auburn that are approaching 300 members. That's a small industry, not a sisterhood.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

I have to agree with you Honeychile, but a chapter with 70 members can't support the big houses that these big big chapters have at a lot of schools. Also, it's the PNMS who drop out rather than pledge a newer or smaller chapter. Example: Ole Miss, which has tried and tried to keep chapters, but they just can't pledge enough and there is no where else to build a house. There are chapters at Ole Miss, Alabama and Auburn that are approaching 300 members. That's a small industry, not a sisterhood.

Well the only evidence that it might be possible to lower chapter size down to 70 and still run in the black is the fact that fraternities on the same campuses often with similarly sized houses can be financially solvent at much lower numbers.

But you're right even if it were sustainable from the financial perspective, it wouldn't work: it's so hard for a new group to break into that system and make it. The traditions of the groups are so strong.

On campuses where expansions take, adding groups is a great idea. But at Old Miss or even Mississippi State, good luck to ya! It's not a coincidence they don't have more groups.

So working with what we know, is it better to have big chapters or do something like Ohio State's firm total to keep the size under control?

I think a girl is better off in a huge chapter than not getting to be Greek at all.

[UGAalum94]

Now, I've never had direct experience with recruitment since release figures were fully implemented, but I would guess that all the groups are aware that certain groups seems to have a couple of new member classes worth of legacies going through at each year at the really big recruitments.

My point is that all the other chapters would also know that at least two thirds (or more) of the XYZ legacies were going to end up elsewhere, so it wouldn't make sense to release a girl you were interested in simply because she was a XYZ legacy. Now if you happened to know that a particular girl is an in house legacy or that she had an "XYZ or I'm dropping out of rush attitude," that's another story.

I think things are so intensely competitive for some chapters at big recruitments that the other groups probably take a wait and see attitude as much as they can about the legacies from these groups. And for the chapters that are pressured to make massive cuts because of release numbers, personally, I think they probably know who they want long before recruitment even starts and that legacy status isn't playing that big a role, period.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

Now, I've never had direct experience with recruitment since release figures were fully implemented, but I would guess that all the groups are aware that certain groups seems to have a couple of new member classes worth of legacies going through at each year at the really big recruitments.

My point is that all the other chapters would also know that at least two thirds (or more) of the XYZ legacies were going to end up elsewhere, so it wouldn't make sense to release a girl you were interested in simply because she was a XYZ legacy. Now if you happened to know that a particular girl is an in house legacy or that she had an "XYZ or I'm dropping out of rush attitude," that's another story.

I think things are so intensely competitive for some chapters at big recruitments that the other groups probably take a wait and see attitude as much as they can about the legacies from these groups. And for the chapters that are pressured to make massive cuts because of release numbers, personally, I think they probably know who they want long before recruitment even starts and that legacy status isn't playing that big a role, period.

Sorry for the double-post, but at Illinois, they did not tell us who was a leg to what chapter, unless it was ours. Is it common practice at most schools to make that info public?

[SWTXBelle]

The information forms used by the colleges I attended and later was an advisor to had a place to list family greek ties - so everyone would know which houses you were a legacy to if you listed it on the general form.

[UGAalum94]

DeltaBetaBaby,

It's been a long time since I've see any on-campus recruitment forms, but UGA used to disclosed it to all the chapters.

Also, the rec forms that groups get from alumnae also often mention the legacy connections, so the chapter would likely know even if Panhellenic had quit passing the information along.

(It's probably on an local Panhellenic recruitment information form.)

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Sorry for the double-post, but at Illinois, they did not tell us who was a leg to what chapter, unless it was ours. Is it common practice at most schools to make that info public?

At KSU it was public information.