ETSU chapter, Iota Omnicron Zeta

[JConleyWCU]

We're located in North Carolina. You see our chapter is currently being re-colonized because we were kicked off campus in 2001. A few bad apples ruin it for everyone. We were a pillar on campus. At the time we had a 30 room home, which was the biggest and nicest looking house on fraternity row. We'll after we were shut down the house was sold, gutted, and turned into an apartment complex. We are not a strong enough chapter currently, but getting a house is one of our goals.

There is a on campus Greek facility called the village. It was built by the university in hopes Greeks would live there. For the price I would need to pay to live in a house down there, I could have a nice apartment, water and utilities included. I would also not have every person in the village in my business. Many organizations are going in debt because they cannot afford to live there, or they have better opportunities.

[GammaZeta]

How's your alumni support?

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by JConleyWCU

We're located in North Carolina. You see our chapter is currently being re-colonized because we were kicked off campus in 2001. A few bad apples ruin it for everyone. We were a pillar on campus. At the time we had a 30 room home, which was the biggest and nicest looking house on fraternity row. We'll after we were shut down the house was sold, gutted, and turned into an apartment complex. We are not a strong enough chapter currently, but getting a house is one of our goals.

There is a on campus Greek facility called the village. It was built by the university in hopes Greeks would live there. For the price I would need to pay to live in a house down there, I could have a nice apartment, water and utilities included. I would also not have every person in the village in my business. Many organizations are going in debt because they cannot afford to live there, or they have better opportunities.

You hit the nail on the head!

First thing, form a House Corporation.

Second try renting a house and save money! From what I am seeing, the College Greek living is way over priced and can kill a GLO! Try and make sure that the price of living in the house is equal to apartments and dorm living.
I t may not be fancy as the New Greek Living, but you will last they may not!
As you Brothers are just coming back, you need to grow first and then put money backin the coffers!

Yes, I know Joe Clary, small world isn't it!

Good Luck!!!!

[GammaZeta]

I'd have to agree with Tom.

Do you really want to OWN your house? Is it really worth it?

Look at Gamma Zeta, we kept our very fist chapter house, where so many "1st's" for our fraternity happened, running for over 90 years. Now in a few weeks that historic house will be torn down, demolished to make way for classrooms.

Unfortunately for GZ, we didn't have the alumni support, and for decades running the house, mortgage, maintenance, etc., fell on the president's shoulders. When the last few presidents tried to recover, set things right, everything exploded.

It was very easy for our volunteer housing corp. to simply walk away and become void years ago. You get a few members that are indifferent or don't care or become frustrated or become too busy, and you can really take a screwing.

Also, it's not like buying a new home where you are better off putting money into a mortgage than rent every month. You will never see your investment back. Every person will have to pay a substantial rent, even when the house is paid off. GZ was paid off years ago, but the cost of upkeep, oil, and TAXES still killed us.

Lease something. Find a nice house, sign a longterm lease, have a landlord become responsible.

It is much easier on the chapter.

[Mooch279]

1) What happened to the money from the sale from the original house?

2) Is renting long term really better than turning over the deed to LCAP? if you have a landlord eventually they will most likely want to sell it and then where does that leave the chapter?

[JConleyWCU]

Wow... you guys are quick.

Having a house is our LONGTERM goal. I know it is sad, but I probably will not ever live in “the” house. Our alumni are probably the most supportive alumni you can have in some cases. I know that it was not too long ago that the house was sold and the chapter kicked off. So I believe them to be very touchy on this subject. As to the money from the old house, I am not sure, very good question. The problem I see is the area we live in. Cullowhee is an incredibly small town. The only traffic lights are on campus, and WCU provides revenue into the po-dunk town. The problem is locals who do not want campus to expand, who are killing the school by keeping it dry, and not renting to college students. Renting to a fraternity would probably not go over very well, because of the liability.

[GammaZeta]

1) Find the money. Find out what happened to it. Who actually owned the house?

2) Renting a cardboard box in a back alley is better than turning the deed over to LCAP. I'm not going to repeat my chapter's experience with LCAP as a "landlord" since the person in charge at the time is gone, but you can either PM me or search the archives for other brothers negative experiences.

Who says they have to rent a "fraternity" house? You and some friends just can't lease a house together???

[docroc67]

[QUOTE=GammaZeta;1482973]1) Find the money. Find out what happened to it. Who actually owned the house?

2) Renting a cardboard box in a back alley is better than turning the deed over to LCAP.

Hi,

Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

However, I think that this statement does not represent Zeta- Upsilon Zeta's experience with LCAP. That is what I have to go by.

I don't know if I ever will understand Gamma Zeta's experience with LCAP because it is so different from mine.

Joe's gone. Based on my personal and long time experience with him I judge him to be a fine and honorable man. He kept every commitment to us and we are now in a position to occupy our Chapter House next school year.

Of course, we have to fill the Chapter House. That is not LCAP's duty. If we can put enough good men in the Chapter House we will have no problems. If we don't, it is our failure not LCAP.

I have to believe that the "disconect" between LACP and Gamma Zeta happened because it's Alumni didn't step up to the real world challenge of providing a quality Chapter House to it's Active members. Just where were the Alumni? What did they do to make everything work?

I suspect little to nothing.

Where was the Active Chapter? How much respect and love for this historic building did they show?

I suspect little or nothing.

In my opinion, LCAP didn't lose Gamma Zeta's Chapter House.

Gamma Zeta lost it's Chapter House before LCAP was even involved because its members didn't do their job of caring for their property.

LCAP never would have been in the picture if Gamma Zeta would have taken care of its business.

Having said all that, I want Gamma back as an active Zeta. It is important to our collective history.

But, I suspect that this won't happen soon because of a combination of local opposition, university hostility, and no real leadership or commitment from Gamma Zeta Alumni.

Who lost Gamma Zeta's Chapter House?

I think Gamma Zeta lost the property itself.

Unfortunately, a "cardboard box in a back alley" is not even an option for our Flagship Gamma Zeta because Gamma Zeta failed to keep its obligations to maintain it's property.

I am sorry that it played out this way.

Yours in ZAX,

Mike Raymond, ZU-384

[justaflaneur]

Note Section VII-24 of the Statutory Code: "Each Chapter, before purchasing any real property, shall cause to be formed a House Corporation incorporated under the laws of the state or province in which the property is located to hold title to such property."

ZAX,
Lynn Chipperfield

[GammaZeta]

I think that answers you question.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by justaflaneur

Note Section VII-24 of the Statutory Code: "Each Chapter, before purchasing any real property, shall cause to be formed a House Corporation incorporated under the laws of the state or province in which the property is located to hold title to such property."

ZAX,
Lynn Chipperfield

Lynn as you pointed out it is true but, I have come across another Brother at another Zeta (PM Me if interested), that ran into the same problems as Gamma and felt they were done wrong. This too was an old Zeta at a Large University!


But here again when the property was turned over to LCAP there became problems and promiseses that were not kept.

Granted, I am hearing from a one sided conversation but this is no disgruntled Active, it is a respected Alum Brother.

But, once again, it boils down to having enough Brothers to afford and keep it up. If not, do not rush into a house owning situation until enough money and membership is attained.

[GammaZeta]

The only way I would advocate for buying a house for a chapter would be under certain circumstances.

1. Raise enough money before purchase so you can avoid taking out a large mortgage. This of course would take hundreds of thousands of dollars, and would be very difficult.

2. Set up a LARGE trust that cannot be touched by any member or alumni, for the sole purpose of having enough money for taxes, improvements, repairs, and possibly recruitment funds. It should be large enough where most of those can be paid by interest. Again, a considerable amount of money.

Basically, take the responsibility out of the hands of the brothers and alumni. Make sure you have enough assets to carry the house through difficult times. Have a safety net.

Like I said before, a Housing Corp. can easily be abandoned. One bad batch will spoil every batch for the future.

I would go one step further and put the assets in some sort of trust, where the trustee has a fiduciary obligation to the chapter and beneficiaries.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

The only way I would advocate for buying a house for a chapter would be under certain circumstances.

1. Raise enough money before purchase so you can avoid taking out a large mortgage. This of course would take hundreds of thousands of dollars, and would be very difficult.

2. Set up a LARGE trust that cannot be touched by any member or alumni, for the sole purpose of having enough money for taxes, improvements, repairs, and possibly recruitment funds. It should be large enough where most of those can be paid by interest. Again, a considerable amount of money.

Basically, take the responsibility out of the hands of the brothers and alumni. Make sure you have enough assets to carry the house through difficult times. Have a safety net.

Like I said before, a Housing Corp. can easily be abandoned. One bad batch will spoil every batch for the future.

I would go one step further and put the assets in some sort of trust, where the trustee has a fiduciary obligation to the chapter and beneficiaries.

Okay, GZ agree, but where is the money going to come from?

Only two places, Zeta and Alumnus. So how will they feel if do not have some control over it?

You are correct in saying if the HC sucks, it can cause a ton of problems. Manytimes, it only takes the President to gum up the works. But, isn't this true within any organization?

Who would these trustees be?

[GammaZeta]

"Okay, GZ agree, but where is the money going to come from?"

Isn't THAT the $64,000 question? Money, money, money.

That is exactly why I would advocate for NOT buying a house. Where IS the money going to come from. That is why my scenario would be almost impossible to acheive.

"Only two places, Zeta and Alumnus. So how will they feel if do not have some control over it?"

That is exaclty why they should set up a trust with the money. Put an independent person in charge of the trust who has only the best interest of the chapters at heart and is above influence of alumni and the zeta.

If an alumni donates money for a general cause, it should go to the best interests of the chapter. If an alumni wants to donate money, for perhaps building a library or purchasing rush t-shirts, that's fine. Give the money to the trust on that condition. But general donations, especially in raising money to purchase or maintain a house, should be given to an independent source with a fiduciary obligation to the chapter.

I don't believe that housing corps. are the way to go anymore.

I do think LCAP was a step in the RIGHT direction, taking away the nuts and bolts operation of the physical chapter house out of the equation where it was able to become corrupt or mismanaged.

I don't think that LCAP should have been in the actual property business.

Ideally, I think LCAP would work best if it was set up as a trust for chapters with a manager. LCAP would make sure taxes, etc., would be paid from the rents. Then, other problems or items, such as maintenance, etc. would be handled by the housing corp., which would contact LCAP as trustee for approval of funds for such repairs, etc.

This would make the housing corp. into a landlord of sorts. The housing corp. would be able to better respond, evaluate, know the house better and would be local. LCAP as a landlord is not a good idea, LCAP as a fiscal manager is a good idea.