A question about bid lists...

[adpiucf]

You may want to ask a member of your sorority privately about how your group organizes recruitment and bidding.

Bid Lists and the way each sorority arranges its lists may vary, and starts to wade into the territory of private membership selection practices...

[33girl]

OK, this isn't a specific sorority question, this is a Panhell question. When the Panhell matches bids, do they (either by hand or by computer) start with Annie Alpha & end w/ Zoe Zeta?

[irishpipes]

When I've helped with bid matching, chapters were asked to submit bid lists with the #1 list in alphabetical order and the remaining list(s) in order of ranking.

[lyrelyre]

I don't think it violates MS to say that Panhellenic suggests that the first bid list is in alphabetic order, for ease of matching. The remainder of the list is in order of preference.

So, if "Stacey Xylophone" is the first person on the second list she will be the next person to move onto the first list and would receive a bid before "Julie Anderson" if Julie is below her on the second list.

On campuses using ICS it doesn’t even matter if the first list in in alphabetic order.

I hope that helps.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by lyrelyre

I don't think it violates MS to say that Panhellenic suggests that the first bid list is in alphabetic order, for ease of matching. The remainder of the list is in order of preference.

So, if "Stacey Xylophone" is the first person on the second list she will be the next person to move onto the first list and would receive a bid before "Julie Anderson" if Julie is below her on the second list.

On campuses using ICS it doesn’t even matter if the first list in in alphabetic order.

I hope that helps.

I mean when Panhell is calling out names (so to speak) - do they (i.e. the Panhell officers) do so alphabetically?

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I mean when Panhell is calling out names (so to speak) - do they (i.e. the Panhell officers) do so alphabetically?

Yes they do - when matching is done by hand. AZ-AlphaXi's description on how to arrange bid lists is great.

And now to throw a further wrench into it. I'll bring up the topic of Quota Range! With the new RFM, Quota is not determined until AFTER chapters have submitted their lists and PNMs have ranked. Let's say Quota Range has been determined to be 30-34. So the question would be - how many names do we put on our first bid list? Two options:

1 - Put 30 on your first bid list in alphabetical order, and arrange the second bid list in ranking order. So if quota winds up being 34, #s 31, 32, 33, and 34 are automatically bumped up.

2 - Another option that campuses that do QR either already do or are considering is to have ONE bid list with everyone in ranking order - period.

[FloridaTish]

Thanks for all your responses, the process makes much more sense to me now! I really appreciate the help!

Have a nice weekend everyone!

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Originally Posted by jwright25

Yes they do - when matching is done by hand. AZ-AlphaXi's description on how to arrange bid lists is great.

And now to throw a further wrench into it. I'll bring up the topic of Quota Range! With the new RFM, Quota is not determined until AFTER chapters have submitted their lists and PNMs have ranked. Let's say Quota Range has been determined to be 30-34. So the question would be - how many names do we put on our first bid list? Two options:

1 - Put 30 on your first bid list in alphabetical order, and arrange the second bid list in ranking order. So if quota winds up being 34, #s 31, 32, 33, and 34 are automatically bumped up.

2 - Another option that campuses that do QR either already do or are considering is to have ONE bid list with everyone in ranking order - period.

Alphabetization is for ease-of-use on campuses that are still hand matching. If you use a computer program, I can't think of any reason it would matter.

On a related note, why are campuses still hand matching?

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

On a related note, why are campuses still hand matching?

There are some who just refuse to change! The "We've always done it this way" mentality. And I was part of that, and to a certain extent still am. When the campus has only 3, 4, 5, 6 chapters and only a couple of hundred PNMs, it really only takes about an hour or two. The part that I like best about it is being able to fix problems on the spot. Here's an example:

In 2005, a PNM ranked my chapter #1. She was on our first bid list. When we did hand bid matching, she matched immediately - no problem. But then when we ran the computer program, something caused her to match to her second choice. We don't know what it was - a misread on her scantron, whatever. But she would have assumed we didn't want her, and we would have assumed she didn't want us. (We used D&D that year.)

In 2006, a PNM showed up for bid distribution but didn't have a bid anywhere. When she was leftover, the GA discovered that for some reason she entered her Pref rankings incorrectly the night before. Turns out she wound up wanting us, so we got her. But if we had been hand matching, we would have noticed that her name and card had never been read off - because she would have still been on our list as unmatched to anyone. As it was, when she wasn't on our new member list, we assumed she ranked another chapter 1st. Could have saved her the "embarrassment" of going to bid distribution and not having a card. (We used ICS that year.)

I participated in hand matching for several years, and every year the advisors were able to talk out things like gridlock, quota additions, etc. We all got along well and knew how our chapters felt about each PNM, so that we could make the correct decisions for both the chapters and the PNMs. But we only had 4 chapters and about 120-150 PNMs each year.

It just isn't practical for campuses who have more OR for campuses where the scheduling is too tight to allow for it. Like if they have Preference in the morning and Bid Day later that afternoon. There are pros and cons - no computer system is perfect and it doesn't allow for human error (like what we experienced in 2006).

So it's really all determined by campus culture. If you have overpowering advisors and a Greek Advisor who isn't willing to stand up to them, they'll generally get their way. I don't think hand matching is bad - as long as the alumnae are willing to sit through it, it has some positive benefits. The only downside I've seen is the time it takes. But someone else might have other opinions - and I'd love to hear them!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by jwright25

There are some who just refuse to change! The "We've always done it this way" mentality. And I was part of that, and to a certain extent still am. When the campus has only 3, 4, 5, 6 chapters and only a couple of hundred PNMs, it really only takes about an hour or two. The part that I like best about it is being able to fix problems on the spot. Here's an example:

In 2005, a PNM ranked my chapter #1. She was on our first bid list. When we did hand bid matching, she matched immediately - no problem. But then when we ran the computer program, something caused her to match to her second choice. We don't know what it was - a misread on her scantron, whatever. But she would have assumed we didn't want her, and we would have assumed she didn't want us. (We used D&D that year.)

In 2006, a PNM showed up for bid distribution but didn't have a bid anywhere. When she was leftover, the GA discovered that for some reason she entered her Pref rankings incorrectly the night before. Turns out she wound up wanting us, so we got her. But if we had been hand matching, we would have noticed that her name and card had never been read off - because she would have still been on our list as unmatched to anyone. As it was, when she wasn't on our new member list, we assumed she ranked another chapter 1st. Could have saved her the "embarrassment" of going to bid distribution and not having a card. (We used ICS that year.)

I participated in hand matching for several years, and every year the advisors were able to talk out things like gridlock, quota additions, etc. We all got along well and knew how our chapters felt about each PNM, so that we could make the correct decisions for both the chapters and the PNMs. But we only had 4 chapters and about 120-150 PNMs each year.

It just isn't practical for campuses who have more OR for campuses where the scheduling is too tight to allow for it. Like if they have Preference in the morning and Bid Day later that afternoon. There are pros and cons - no computer system is perfect and it doesn't allow for human error (like what we experienced in 2006).

So it's really all determined by campus culture. If you have overpowering advisors and a Greek Advisor who isn't willing to stand up to them, they'll generally get their way. I don't think hand matching is bad - as long as the alumnae are willing to sit through it, it has some positive benefits. The only downside I've seen is the time it takes. But someone else might have other opinions - and I'd love to hear them!

It really seems that it would be worthwhile even on a big campuses to spend sometime double checking any unmatched names just to make sure. You never would have caught the girl who matched to her second choice, but maybe more people and groups could be matched without going to snap bids and COB.

Do most campuses already do this when they do QAs?

[aopirose]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

On a related note, why are campuses still hand matching?

There are several campuses that have only two or three groups and have less than 100 PMs. The costs associated with a computerized system like ICS might be cost prohibitive and it might be easier to do it by hand.


jwright was too quick for me!

[AZ-AlphaXi]

First bid list is (or can be) in alphabetical order. Order on first bid list doesn't matter, because once a name in on the first bid list it stays there until she gets a bid from you or from someone else. So, Abigal Adams has the same
chance to get a bid if on the first bid list as does Zoie Zimmerman. Each are on the first bid list and getting a bid depends on where they've ranked the chapter, where they've ranked other chapters, and where they are on other chapter's bid lists.

Second bid list must be in the order that the chapter wants the PNM not alphabetical. Its order does matter. If quota is 20, first bid list has 20 names and second bid list has as many additional names as 1) attended preference and 2) as many additional PNMs the chapter is willing to extend a bid to beyond those who attended preference.

So, if quota is 20 and if the chapter matches 15 on the first bid list and 5 go elsewhere then the first 5 names on the second list move on to the first bid list as the other 5 move off and will be offered a bid if they put the chapter first or when their first choice fills quota. Names move on to the first bid list from the second in the order they are in on the second bid list. So it matters if Susie Smith is #21 (ie #1 on the second bid list) or #45 (ie #25 on the second bid list) in the first case, there's a good chance of getting on to the first bid list and getting a bid, in the second there's probably not. It depends on where on the bid list the chapter hits quota.

So first bid list may be alphabetical .. I think that was done to make hand bid matching easier ... but doesn't have to be. Second bid list MUST be in the order the chapter wants them, not alphabetical. How the chapter makes up the first bid list and orders the second is up to the chapter ... that part is membership selection information.

[FloridaTish]

Originally Posted by adpiucf

You may want to ask a member of your sorority privately about how your group organizes recruitment and bidding.

Bid Lists and the way each sorority arranges its lists may vary, and starts to wade into the territory of private membership selection practices...

Thanks for your suggestion, but I'm not asking for details on how the PNM's are chosen to be on those bid lists, I really just wanted to know if the second bid lists were also in alphabetical order (like the 1st bid lists are) if that were the case, how would that effect bid matching. I guess I didn't word my question the way I intended.

Thanks to lyrelyre for answering my question; I am familliar with how it works within Gamma Phi at our university, but after reading numerous posts on Greekchat about bid matching at large SEC schools I was admittedly confused.

[BabyPiNK_FL]

At my school we also use the ICS and it makes great sense that say quota is 45 and your top 45 go in alphabetical because you want all of them so they'd match all the ones on there that wanted you back first and then if they wanted someone else you'd move down to the 2nd bid list which will be in ranking order because you'd to replace Super Susie PNM and SGA Serena who wanted XYZ instead with the most stellar "back-up" as possible.