Sweethearts wearing letters?

[RutgersPIKE]

I don't think anyone but initiated members should wear the letters period. I mean if pledges arent allowed to wear the letters, and they must earn that honor, then why should people who dont do anything pledge wise be able to wear the letters. The letters represent a bond between the brothers and have some meaning behind them, if random people just wear these letters without knowing the meaning behind them then i think its just wrong. Only initiated members should wear the letters

[banditone]

Some of our sweethearts did more for the chapter then some pledges.

[SWTXBelle]

RutgersPIKE - many GLOs allow pledges to wear letters. The idea of "earning" your letters is now seen as an invitation to haze. Wearing letters indicates you are a member (even if a pledge) of that GLO. I like "mom" shirts - i.e. Gamma Phi Beta mom, Sigma Chi dad; and I also like legacy shirts (I'm in the process of getting some for my sons). Then there are the shirts for events such as Greek Week or Derby Days, which feature all of the letters of different GLOs. Do you not wear shirts like that, and is that a personal preference or a II K A philosophy? Not being snarky - I really am interested in knowing what different national/international GLOs have to say about the issue.

[RutgersPIKE]

I understand that is like hazing, but I also know that I wasnt hazed at all during pledging and that I still feel like I had to finish my pledging before I could wear the letters, I just feel that the letters represent something more and that I really wouldnt appreciate it if anyone who is not a brother is walking around with the Pi Kappa Alpha on them because they really dont know what it represents, I understand some sweethearts might have done some work and even know a little bit about it, but the letters represent the bond I share with my brothers and I feel that brothers should be the only ones wearing my letters, I wouldnt even let my mother wear my pike hoodie when she asked me and was cold, call me cruel or whatever, but this is just something I strongly believe

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by RutgersPIKE

I understand that is like hazing, but I also know that I wasnt hazed at all during pledging and that I still feel like I had to finish my pledging before I could wear the letters, I just feel that the letters represent something more and that I really wouldnt appreciate it if anyone who is not a brother is walking around with the Pi Kappa Alpha on them because they really dont know what it represents, I understand some sweethearts might have done some work and even know a little bit about it, but the letters represent the bond I share with my brothers and I feel that brothers should be the only ones wearing my letters, I wouldnt even let my mother wear my pike hoodie when she asked me and was cold, call me cruel or whatever, but this is just something I strongly believe

Me personally, I think it's ok for mom to wear it. But it isn't a crime to feel strongly about your letters.

As far as I understand it, guys choose sweethearts...not just one of them. It seems to me that if the majority of the chapter thinks it's ok...then good deal.

I feel the same about lavalieres...it is a little different when it isn't run by the whole chapter. But if a brother laveliered a girl and he was approached by a group of brothers who were concerened about it...it seems like it would be reasonable to expect him to explain the situation to her and offer a nice shiny bauble instead.

It just has a lot to do with campus culture.

[RutgersPIKE]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

It just has a lot to do with campus culture.

I guess this is a Rutgers thing, but sweethearts really arent used in our school, I just know the mindset of the brothers at the Alpha Psi chapter of Pike is that only brothers wear letters, just because we all feel the same about the bond, I do not disagree with the fraternities that do let their sweethearts wear letters, I just wouldnt like to see my fraternity do it, instead we would let them wear PIKES on their shirt, because that is a nickname and has no meaning, unlike our letters, I guess I just take that meaning to a different level lol

[RutgersPIKE]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

Me personally, I think it's ok for mom to wear it. But it isn't a crime to feel strongly about your letters.

And as for my mother wearing my letters, she is greatly disappointed in my decision to pledge, so she doesnt deserve to wear the letters lol, let her freeze (but I do love my mother more than the world lol)

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by RutgersPIKE

And as for my mother wearing my letters, she is greatly disappointed in my decision to pledge, so she doesnt deserve to wear the letters lol, let her freeze (but I do love my mother more than the world lol)

Well it's a personal thing, anyway. It's between you and your momma.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

Me personally, I think it's ok for mom to wear it. But it isn't a crime to feel strongly about your letters.

I was ok with giving my mom a set of letters that said "Mom" underneath. I WASN'T ok with her buying letters for herself.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I was ok with giving my mom a set of letters that said "Mom" underneath. I WASN'T ok with her buying letters for herself.

I think I'd be the same way, but my mom's a KD, so she doesn't really feel the need for that kinda stuff. So no worries for me.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

RutgersPIKE - many GLOs allow pledges to wear letters. The idea of "earning" your letters is now seen as an invitation to haze. Wearing letters indicates you are a member (even if a pledge) of that GLO.

My observations may be limited, but it has been my obervation that this is one of those men-and-women-are-different things. My observation has been that many if not most men's GLOs (but certainly not all) do not consider pledges, or whatever other term is used, to be "members," at least not full members.

One of the ways that this is expressed is by reserving the right to wear letters until after initiation. As has been pointed out many times before here at GC, many if not most men's GLOs have a second vote prior to initiation -- meaning that a "pledge' must not only be voted on to get a bid but that he must be voted on a second time at the end of the pledge period for initiation. This is part of the practice underlying the idea of "earning" one's letters.

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

It just has a lot to do with campus culture.

It also has to do with the culture or rules of the specific GLO.

Our National Constitution was amended at our last National Assembly to address this very issue. Our Constitution now specifically states that only brothers in good standing are permitted to wear or display our letters or our coat-of-arms. It also states that probationary members (pledges) "may not wear or otherwise display these symbols at any time prior to initiation," and that brothers "may not authorize or encourage" anyone who is not an initiated brother to wear or display our letters or coat-of-arms. (Which means that chapters are having to come up with lavelier-alternatives for sweethearts and fiancees. Perhaps a national alternative will be provided.)

ETA: It has been a regulation for years that probationary members could not wear the letters. (Like TSteven describes with Sigma Chi, they can wear clothing with the words "Phi Mu Alpha.") The recent constitutional amendment was simply a strengthening of the rule in that regard.

Men and Women are different. Vive la difference.

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by RutgersPIKE

I don't think anyone but initiated members should wear the letters period. I mean if pledges arent allowed to wear the letters, and they must earn that honor, then why should people who dont do anything pledge wise be able to wear the letters. The letters represent a bond between the brothers and have some meaning behind them, if random people just wear these letters without knowing the meaning behind them then i think its just wrong. Only initiated members should wear the letters

First of all, not allowing pledges to wear letters is hazing. It's also hazing to call them pledges instead of New Members. [That topic, however, is debatable, and let's not go there.]

Secondly, just because we don't know what IIKA stands for doesn't mean that a sweetheart who has worked for your chapter doesn't appreciate what you do and who you are, and wants to strive for your fraternity to succeed in the highest degree. And you know what? That means something.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

First of all, not allowing pledges to wear letters is hazing. It's also hazing to call them pledges instead of New Members. [That topic, however, is debatable, and let's not go there.]

Secondly, just because we don't know what IIKA stands for doesn't mean that a sweetheart who has worked for your chapter doesn't appreciate what you do and who you are, and wants to strive for your fraternity to succeed in the highest degree. And you know what? That means something.

Not allowing pledges to wear letters or calling pledges "pledges" is not hazing. For example, if a man chooses to accept a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation. I believe that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi have something similar in place regarding "new members" wearing letters. As for pledges being called pledges, I'm fairly sure other NIC/IFC fraternities do this as well. However, I am not sure about any NPC organization doing so.

Also, many organizations have strict or specific rules (policy) about non members wearing their letters. With guidelines as to how and why.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by TSteven

Not allowing pledges to wear letters or calling pledges "pledges" is not hazing. For example, if a man chooses to accept a bid from Sigma Chi Fraternity, from that point on he is considered a Sigma Chi pledge and may wear shirts, etc., with the words "Sigma Chi" or "Sigs" but not the Greek letters Sigma Chi. This is a national regulation. I believe that Alpha Epsilon Phi, Kappa Alpha Theta and Pi Beta Phi have something similar in place regarding "new members" wearing letters. As for pledges being called pledges, I'm fairly sure other NIC/IFC fraternities do this as well. However, I am not sure about any NPC organization doing so.

Also, many organizations have strict or specific rules (policy) about non members wearing their letters. With guidelines as to how and why.

The reason we are running into a brick wall with reference to what hazing is, is because NPC has a very distinct definition of what it is. According to NPC, hazing IS not allowing women to wear letters, and calling them pledges instead of new members. Although fraternities and sororities share many likelesses, therein lies the difference between NIC/IFC and NPC organizations.

[fantASTic]

Actually, in my state, calling a new member a pledge is against the law because it's hazing. Nationals also condemns it. It is reminiscent of the days in which a new member was required to participate in unfortunate events in order to initiate, aka hazing.

At least in AST, not allowing a new member to wear letters IS hazing, because it's telling them that they can't do certain things unless they're initiated. It's the same thing as requiring them to wear certain clothing all the time, which IS hazing.

Whether a certain org's nationals have strict rules about non members wearing letters is one thing. However, if Nationals does NOT say that it is verboten, then it is left up to the individual chapter, and it shoudln't matter to us.