Too fat to recruit: or, DePauw, the Sequel

[fantASTic]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

This statement from you doesn't surprise me, because when it comes to rush you are pretty shallow.

Sorry to break it to you, but RUSH is shallow. If it wasn't, we could wear whatever we wanted, not wash our hair or put on makeup, and have rush parties in abandoned warehouses and still get the same turnout.

That being said, I stand by my previous statements on this issue.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Sorry to break it to you, but RUSH is shallow. If it wasn't, we could wear whatever we wanted, not wash our hair or put on makeup, and have rush parties in abandoned warehouses and still get the same turnout.

That being said, I stand by my previous statements on this issue.

There's a difference between putting your best self forward and telling a sister her best self isn't good enough (although it was good enough to give her a bid and collect her dues).

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Sorry to break it to you, but RUSH is shallow. If it wasn't, we could wear whatever we wanted, not wash our hair or put on makeup, and have rush parties in abandoned warehouses and still get the same turnout.

That being said, I stand by my previous statements on this issue.

You don't want to get involved in that fight.

That said, I know recruitment is shallow. It's based off of really quick impresions and connections with girls. The assumption that a heavy girl will turn off PNMs is offensive. And this girl is your sister. Are you going to take those "shallow" PNMS and pretend like the heavy girl isn't your sister until initiation? After? Any girl who would go "ugh she's heavy I don't want to be a sister with any of the girls in this room because she's heavy" should NOT be given a bid.

[fantASTic]

33girl + Drolefille:

I agree. I believe I stated this earlier in the thread; it IS wrong to discriminate against somebody based on their physical appearance, especially over something like this.

[UGAalum94]

I don't think that members in good standing should be asked to stay away from recruitment for any reasons. I don't think any members should be assigned a recruitment duty that she doesn't want for a disproportionate amount the other time, either.

We all have strengths and weaknesses, and we should all help figure out where we think we can best serve our organizations, but also be open to doing something else as long as the way duties are assigned is in keeping with the overall values of the organization.

At my chapter, I don't remember any actives not rushing unless they were in a goofy costume for a skit, so I don't remember any nonsense like this.

BUT some of you posting may have no idea what a big Southern recruitment is like. The way we want things to be and the way things actually are often not the same, and chapters feel pressured to do something wrong in terms of sisterhood to ensure that they get a particular outcome all along the return rate spectrum.

Carnation didn't want that organization to go under, I bet, and you misread her if you think it was her point. She was just aware that recruitment can be a game of superficial impressions, and if you don't play along, your group may not be around much longer to enjoy your authentic sisterhood.

ETA: I saw my friend who wasn't Greek who has a Greek daughter today. She takes all the directions about who can wear what and what's allowed and required at recruitment to be generally a reflection of the values of sororities. It breaks my heart what she thinks we're all about, but I also know that most groups that didn't spend time on image for recruitment are going to have a hard time attracting enough new members to fill a new member class. I wish there were a way to get away from it but not having decorations and skits isn't going to do it.

[Leslie Anne]

I think it's horrible to hide any sister from Recruitment regardless of their shortcomings. I've always felt, and perhaps I'm wrong, that one of the purposes of being a member of a sorority is to learn to be your personal best. If a sister lacks conversational skills, study skills, personal grooming, then help her to improve. Don't pretend she doesn't exist!

The only time I can truly understand the big push for numbers in a chapter is when they need the income to support the maintenance of the house. Otherwise, I think it's ridiculous. Fraternities manage to stay afloat without large numbers. Why can't sororities?

I can't help but think how far we've come from the original purposes that our founders had in mind. Do any of the 26 NPCs mention appearance in their Purpose or Creed? I don't think so. Our founders' had loftier ideals. I wish we could find some way to make Recruitment less shallow. I'd imagine that our founders would roll over in their graves if they knew that a sister was hidden because she was fat. For shame!

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I think it's horrible to hide any sister from Recruitment regardless of their shortcomings. I've always felt, and perhaps I'm wrong, that one of the purposes of being a member of a sorority is to learn to be your personal best. If a sister lacks conversational skills, study skills, personal grooming, then help her to improve. Don't pretend she doesn't exist!

The only time I can truly understand the big push for numbers in a chapter is when they need the income to support the maintenance of the house. Otherwise, I think it's ridiculous. Fraternities manage to stay afloat without large numbers. Why can't sororities?

I can't help but think how far we've come from the original purposes that our founders had in mind. Do any of the 26 NPCs mention appearance in their Purpose or Creed? I don't think so. Our founders' had loftier ideals. I wish we could find some way to make Recruitment less shallow. I'd imagine that our founders would roll over in their graves if they knew that a sister was hidden because she was fat. For shame!

I hear what you are saying, but many groups have policies that instruct (and pressure) chapters to recruit to quota and chapter total. It's not what the founders had in mind, but it seems to be where we are today.

I too wonder if having women's groups be more like the IFC might not be more empowering to genuine sisterhood, but NPC recruitment IS different and creates different expectations for the chapters. A NPC chapter doesn't usually have the option to play by its own rules and be viable.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by AlphaGamUGAAlum

I hear what you are saying, but many groups have policies that instruct (and pressure) chapters to recruit to quota and chapter total. It's not what the founders had in mind, but it seems to be where we are today.

I too wonder if having women's groups be more like the IFC might not be more empowering to genuine sisterhood, but NPC recruitment IS different and creates different expectations for the chapters. A NPC chapter doesn't usually have the option to play by its own rules and be viable.

Oh, I completely agree. We have to deal with things the way they are now. It just makes me sad...and a bit angry.

[frattypalmtree]

lol this thread makes me laugh

i wouldnt want fatties either. whats hard to understand about that? lol but thats just my opinion.. dont get offended or nothin..

[JonInKC]

"She ain't heavyyyyyyy....she's my sis-terrrrr.....her wel-fare is myyyyy con-cern....."

[Soliloquy]

It's things like this, that makes myself and MANY other women leary about joining a sorority.

I know my convictions to join will hold true, I could really care less if I feel a connection with the "fat sorority" or the "slutty sorority" etc. If I feel like these are women I want to spend a lot of time with during my collegiate years, you are darn tootin' I will accept a bid from them.

How many wonderful, smart, talented etc. women have refused sorority (or weren't given the opportunity) life because of stereotypical behaviors like this? I would be absolutely disgusted if my GLO acted in this fashion. Granted, I am not in one (yet), I would just hope that my (future) sisters do not act this way.

Isn't part of being in a sorority demonstrating class, morals, scholarly talents, and a dedication to the community? How is forcing someone to abstain from recruitment due to their weight, or even overlooking a PNM due to her weight- despite her incredible resume, acting classy? How is it classy to say that you don't want to ruin your sorority's image by allowing a heavy girl in? Do you really have morals if you are acting this way?

um... no.

[kathykd2005]

Yes, yes, and YES to everything you said. I'm glad to see such a mature point of view from a PNM. Kudos!

Originally Posted by Soliloquy

It's things like this, that makes myself and MANY other women leary about joining a sorority.

I know my convictions to join will hold true, I could really care less if I feel a connection with the "fat sorority" or the "slutty sorority" etc. If I feel like these are women I want to spend a lot of time with during my collegiate years, you are darn tootin' I will accept a bid from them.

How many wonderful, smart, talented etc. women have refused sorority (or weren't given the opportunity) life because of stereotypical behaviors like this? I would be absolutely disgusted if my GLO acted in this fashion. Granted, I am not in one (yet), I would just hope that my (future) sisters do not act this way.

Isn't part of being in a sorority demonstrating class, morals, scholarly talents, and a dedication to the community? How is forcing someone to abstain from recruitment due to their weight, or even overlooking a PNM due to her weight- despite her incredible resume, acting classy? How is it classy to say that you don't want to ruin your sorority's image by allowing a heavy girl in? Do you really have morals if you are acting this way?

um... no.

[ChildoftheHorn]

OK,

I will be the first to admit that I am a big girl and in a sorority at a very Greek school.
There are some factors that do affect this.
-I am a big Girl, but I am proportional (i.e. VERY curvy) with a defined jaw.
-The clothes I wear don't make bulges and keep clean lines (which is more than I can say for some "skinny" girls).
-Hyper active on campus(in a bunch of groups w/leadership).

The point is how you wear it!
Heck, I am usually the one getting in my guy friends at an *event* when I wear a low-cut shirt (brought to the front of the line).

If you saw me on campus, I would probably be wearing a polo w/dark jeans and heels.

Confidence in your own image of yourself makes all the difference in the world!
If the sister is fun and engaging (which is why she is probably your sister to begin with) than she should be talking to the girls.

As a note: If you are a bigger person, you need to wear the appropriate clothing. Spend the extra time looking for jeans that fit you (regardless of what brand name) and buy clothes with shape instead of just big.

I come from a family of bigger and *gifted* women and finding clothes that fit the top and bottom is hard, but it can be done! (I <3 stretch).

If the nationals wants to represent themselves with women who may not represent what the sisterhood means to that person, it could be a very hard decision. One option you may have is to do the work of coats and prep that is constantly going on (a few people are needed for that alone). If the new recruits are not people you would call sister, I would leave. You would know in a little over a week.

Besides, if you are a fun person it may just surprise you. Just because someone is pretty doesn't mean that they are vain and empty.

[kathykd2005]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Sorry to break it to you, but RUSH is shallow. If it wasn't, we could wear whatever we wanted, not wash our hair or put on makeup, and have rush parties in abandoned warehouses and still get the same turnout.

That being said, I stand by my previous statements on this issue.

Actually, National Panhellenic is moving away from Recruitment "parties," meaning that it will be a lot less shallow, and primarily only based on conversation, as opposed to the glitz of decorations, make up, and skits. In the next few years, they just might be holding recruitment events in "warehouses," so to speak, because they won't be allowed to show off; they will only be able to have conversations with PNMs. Of course, this will be difficult for chapters to transition into, but it could be beneficial in the long run for the Greek System.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

Actually, National Panhellenic is moving away from Recruitment "parties," meaning that it will be a lot less shallow, and primarily only based on conversation, as opposed to the glitz of decorations, make up, and skits. In the next few years, they just might be holding recruitment events in "warehouses," so to speak, because they won't be allowed to show off; they will only be able to have conversations with PNMs. Of course, this will be difficult for chapters to transition into, but it could be beneficial in the long run for the Greek System.

How is a lack of decorations going to stop PNM's from thinking "ABC is the fat sorority, I don't want to go there?"