Spirituality and Character in Fraternities...

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by BYXEagle

This brings up an issue I have wondered about. Many Christian fraternities have caught flack from regular fraternities for calling themselves Christian. Many fraternities say well we are built on Christian beliefs which is completely true. My response though is if you are offended by the fact you are Christian and we refer to ourselves as a Christian fraternity, then act like it. Going to church does not make you a Christian any more than sitting in a garage makes you a car. So I have a kinda side question to this one. If you are Christian and in a regular GLO do you have a problem wearing a shirt that has questionable content on it.

If you're organization has class, then you shouldn't have to worry about it.

[Kevin]

I think a lot of it depends on your campus culture. On my campus, religion is emphasized in the fraternity. We pray together, go to church services together, etc. For that reason, it does sort of bother me when an organization came to our school calling itself a "Christian Fraternity." Saying so implies that since they call themselves "Christian," and emphasize Christianity, they must be unique in that aspect of their existence which implies we (other IFC fraternities) must not be spiritual.. or at least, that's the message that I imagine the campus at-large gets.

It's not their fault of course. They are what they are. I suspect they were founded to counter the behavior of some of these groups the OP was complaining about and provide a home for men who wished to belong to a GLO, but didn't want their experience to include anything which might compromise their morals.

In the end, I'm not really sure it affects us much. Our chapter does most of its recruiting during the summer, so most kids don't even hear about Christian fraternities until its too late. I'm assuming the Christian fraternities get most of their kids from the Baptist Student Union (a big deal at my school for some reason), so we're not exactly competing for the same guys.

Anyhow.. bottom line, do what you do.. I'm just uncomfortable with what is implied when one group calls itself "Christian" while others do not.

[DSTRen13]

Some of the Christian organizations seem to have more of an "attitude" about it than others. I think as long as you handle it well, it shouldn't be an issue. But there was an incident on my undergrad campus where a member of a Christian sorority was asked by a member of an NPC sorority about the significance of the label, noting that her sorority was founded on Christian principles as well. The Christian sorority member's response was "The difference is we don't drink and we don't have sex." Um ... yeah. Nice.

[Kevin]

Wow..not to hijack, but the Bible says nothing about abstaining from drinking. It just talks about drunkenness being a sinful thing.

I've actually heard some people talk about wine in the Bible actually being grape juice. How freaking ignorant is that?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Wow..not to hijack, but the Bible says nothing about abstaining from drinking. It just talks about drunkenness being a sinful thing.

I've actually heard some people talk about wine in the Bible actually being grape juice. How freaking ignorant is that?

I don't think it's a matter of ignorance - more that they're saying that the word that meant "wine" really properly translated means "juice from grapes." For the record, I don't agree, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily something someone's pulling out of the air to make it sound like wine = bad.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't think it's a matter of ignorance - more that they're saying that the word that meant "wine" really properly translated means "juice from grapes." For the record, I don't agree, but I'm just saying it's not necessarily something someone's pulling out of the air to make it sound like wine = bad.

I think it's an indication of ignorance of the times though. VERY fresh grape juice might be ok, but you have to ferment the stuff to keep it safe to drink. (There's a reason why people drank beer and not water throughout much of history and it's not for the taste.)

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I don't think it's a matter of ignorance - more that they're saying that the word that meant "wine" really properly translated means "juice from grapes."

It has to be remembered that until 1869, when Thomas Bramwell Welch came up with a method of pasteurization that prevented the fermentation of grape juice, "grape juice" was simply newly-pressed wine that hadn't fermented yet. There was no way, short of drinking it, to keep it from fermenting (or spoiling).

The reality is that most of the Hebrew or Greek words usually translated as "wine" in English Bibles suggest at least some level of fermentation. Nevertheless, there are those who argue that when the Bible refers to "new wine," for example, it is referring to juice of the grape that hasn't fermented yet.

It should also be remembered that when Alexander conquered Palestine, the people there adopted the Greek custom of diluting wine with water.

[Kevin]

Luke 21:34 -- "And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares."

Romans 13:13 -- "Let us walk honestly, as in the day; not in rioting and drunkenness, not in chambering and wantonness, not in strife and envying."

Ephesians 5:18 -- "And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit."

1 Timothy 3:8 -- "Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre."

... it seems the wine back then might have had alcohol in it.