Alpha Phi dies of alcohol poisioning at SDSU

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

The statement was that there were no casual users of cocaine. This is false. Minimizing its use would be more like suggesting that hardly anyone is addicted, that it's no big deal, and here have some coke on me.

What's the benefit to pretending that everyone who uses coke is a complete addict? It doesn't raise awareness. If anything it makes people less likely to listen to what they consider alarmist.

I'm not stupid, cocaine is a serious drug. It's dangerous even for your first time, even in small doses, and particularly when mixed with alcohol. (This is of course what all of your links said as well) This is a discussion, saying "what does it matter" is pointless. If you think it doesn't matter, you're free not to participate.

I am heartened to see that we, for the most part agree.
However "Regardless of how cocaine is used or how frequently, a user can experience acute cardiovascular or cerebrovascular emergencies, such as a heart attack or stroke, which could result in sudden death. Cocaine-related deaths are often a result of cardiac arrest or seizure followed by respiratory arrest." sort of prevents much of a difference between casual and "hard-core" users. And I do not see the point here or any where else on GC to start conversation on just what is a casual user of a drug and where, when and how one becomes an addict.

And in the case of this young lady, in the end does it really matter?

And I for one do not see much use for this as a "study aid". That, in truth, sound like an excuse an addict would use. Any kind of addict.

And since you did not ask, my mother is a clinical psychiatric Social Worker who started and ran a suicide prevention/crisis intervention service. You do not want to hear the life stories I have heard. I am sure it is much more in depth than your class. This is just MHO and I could be wrong.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by jon1856

I am heartened to see that we, for the most part agree.
However "Regardless of how cocaine is used or how frequently, a user can experience acute cardiovascular or cerebrovascular emergencies, such as a heart attack or stroke, which could result in sudden death. Cocaine-related deaths are often a result of cardiac arrest or seizure followed by respiratory arrest." sort of prevents much of a difference between casual and "hard-core" users. And I do not see the point here or any where else on GC to start conversation on just what is a casual user of a drug and where, when and how one becomes an addict.

And in the case of this young lady, in the end does it really matter?

And I for one do not see much use for this as a "study aid". That, in truth, sound like an excuse an addict would use. Any kind of addict.

And since you did not ask, my mother is a clinical psychiatric Social Worker who started and ran a suicide prevention/crisis intervention service. You do not want to hear the life stories I have heard. I am sure it is much more in depth than your class. This is just MHO and I could be wrong.

I'm not sure why you keep quoting the same bit of it. There are big differences between casual users and addicts. BIG ones. And sometimes those dangers listed are much like the side effects on a bottle of medicine. They don't effect everyone equally.

Yeah, an addict could claim to use it as a study aid, or students could use its stimulant effects the same way they use Ritalin's. Party use surely vastly outweighs this use, but it IS used for marathon study sessions.



And you're right, I don't care what your mom does because all of her stories are anecdotal. Heartbreaking, surely, but not of any use when trying to show someone up in a conversation. Neither were your links for that matter.

Stop trying to re-educate me. I corrected someone and you felt the need to try and correct me. You have failed to do so because you are wrong. And now you're now trying to say "it doesn't matter, it didn't help this girl." If it didn't matter you wouldn't have tried to say anything about it in the first place.

This is indeed a tragedy, but if we are going to talk about risk management at all, it needs to be in a way that addresses the members' issues, not as another poster suggested, in kicking out troublesome members just to save your chapter's skin.

The terminology is important because it affects your outreach.
Denying that there are casual cocaine (and other hard drug) users inhibits your ability to educate. It's like denying that people can have sex without getting an STD or pregnant. It's not true, and when kids find that out they don't believe anything you said, even the valid points. Why have anti-drug ads done so poorly historically? Because they claimed that pot=ADDICTION AND DEATH. When teens discovered this wasn't true, they weren't afraid of it at all.
Acknowledging casual drug use is not going to encourage kids/teens/etc to use drugs, nor does it minimize the REAL effects of a drug. It just doesn't lie to them.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I'm not sure why you keep quoting the same bit of it. There are big differences between casual users and addicts. BIG ones. And sometimes those dangers listed are much like the side effects on a bottle of medicine. They don't effect everyone equally.

Yeah, an addict could claim to use it as a study aid, or students could use its stimulant effects the same way they use Ratline's. Party use surely vastly outweighs this use, but it IS used for marathon study sessions.

And you're right, I don't care what your mom does because all of her stories are anecdotal. Heartbreaking, surely, but not of any use when trying to show someone up in a conversation. Neither were your links for that matter.

Stop trying to re-educate me. I corrected someone and you felt the need to try and correct me. You have failed to do so because you are wrong. And now you're now trying to say "it doesn't matter, it didn't help this girl." If it didn't matter you wouldn't have tried to say anything about it in the first place.

This is indeed a tragedy, but if we are going to talk about risk management at all, it needs to be in a way that addresses the members' issues, not as another poster suggested, in kicking out troublesome members just to save your chapter's skin.

The terminology is important because it affects your outreach.
Denying that there are casual cocaine (and other hard drug) users inhibits your ability to educate. It's like denying that people can have sex without getting an STD or pregnant. It's not true, and when kids find that out they don't believe anything you said, even the valid points. Why have anti-drug ads done so poorly historically? Because they claimed that pot=ADDICTION AND DEATH. When teens discovered this wasn't true, they weren't afraid of it at all.
Acknowledging casual drug use is not going to encourage kids/teens/etc to use drugs, nor does it minimize the REAL effects of a drug. It just doesn't lie to them.

You still have your copy of The American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic Criteria from DSM-IV?
IMHO, I did not deny the difference between Cocaine Dependence and Cocaine Abuse. And if the perception is that I did, I am sorry
I just pointed out that the end can be the same.
And in truth, I would follow the advice of a professional over one who just took a class. And I did have a long conversation with Mom about this.

At this point, believe and do what you wish to.
There is very little you can say to change my POV on this matter.
Peace Out.