Definitions Required

[a.e.B.O.T.]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

Again, just more draconian rules. Unless something changes, Beta will just be a gay honor fraternity.

Ok, that was really not necessary coramoor.

Oldest-Pledge, that is interesting, and it up for interpretation, as you proved. I think though that they were talking about the chapter house, not the dorm of individual betas who live outside the house.

Substance-free means no alcohol or illegal drugs. Yes, things like caffeine can be misinterpreted under this, but that assumption is a little drastic. The chapter house is suppose to be a meeting place for the fraternity to gather, a place where rituals take place, a place were business is taken care of. Drugs or alcohol shouldn't take place there anyways, ESPECIALLY if the chapter does their ritual in the chapter house.

[EE-BO]

News to me- and thanks for posting this. "Where applicable" is what I am interested in figuring out.

But in Beta terms, a substance-free house means no illegal drug use (meaning no illegal use of legal drugs and no use of illegal drugs), no alcohol use and no tobacco.

[a.e.B.O.T.]

by tobacco, i assume you mean in doors.

I think the "where applicable" is in regards to those who do not own a chapter house, or those who own one but do not live in their chapter house.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by a.e.B.O.T.

by tobacco, i assume you mean in doors.

I think the "where applicable" is in regards to those who do not own a chapter house, or those who own one but do not live in their chapter house.

Indoors or out- the concept, at least as it has been put in practice at some chapters, applies once you cross the property line.

You may be right on the "where applicable" part. I was thinking along those lines plus also in situations where alumni built/bought a house and wanted to make it substance-free.

[Oldest_Pledge]

The document is posted on the Colony Education page at the bottom. It is a Word Document titled "Chatering Requirements." See "Home - Go Beta - Expansions - Colony Education."

As far as my extension of the interpretations, it only takes on incident, one lawyer and one judge. And actually, it was my law class that brought up the "huffing" cleaning supplies.

And the "where applicable" protion of the statement can be read to mean where ever a Beta lives. So even if you are 21 you could not be found with booze in your living quarters (even if it is the non-Beta roommates).

Things that make you think about how crazy the world it getting. I would not been upset if I was told by the AO that my house (if we had a house) had to be drug free and tobacco free when I was an undergrad. And I could accept the no booze rule as well. But if members were truely Betas, the under 21 one crowd would not have problem with those that are of legal age having a drink in the house and the underage members would leave the stuff alone.

That is what Beta Theta Pi needs to be teaching....

[Coramoor]

This blows my mind!

If I rushed a house and the brothers told me that they don't allow tobacco or alcohol...and used that as a selling point I would have laughed in their face and left them at the front door!

Alcohol and tobacco is not illegal. I don't smoke, but as long as people clean up their butts or spit cups there isn't a problem. I might swear off alcohol when I wake up dehydrated and with a throbbing headache...Rather than ban alcohol, fraternities should promote responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages. If you go into just about any industry you will be expected to attend social events-which will have booze. If you make an ass of your self there...well, there goes your career.

Hell, I'd bet anything that during the meetings in which Knox and Marshall set down the founding principles they were drinking some cognac and smoking a cigar!

[rastaone]

Originally Posted by Coramoor

This blows my mind!

If I rushed a house and the brothers told me that they don't allow tobacco or alcohol...and used that as a selling point I would have laughed in their face and left them at the front door!

Alcohol and tobacco is not illegal. I don't smoke, but as long as people clean up their butts or spit cups there isn't a problem. I might swear off alcohol when I wake up dehydrated and with a throbbing headache...Rather than ban alcohol, fraternities should promote responsible consumption of alcoholic beverages. If you go into just about any industry you will be expected to attend social events-which will have booze. If you make an ass of your self there...well, there goes your career.

Hell, I'd bet anything that during the meetings in which Knox and Marshall set down the founding principles they were drinking some cognac and smoking a cigar!

this is exactly what i have been arguing fro my chapter. i dont alcohol or drugs are bad, and i dont think beta is in the position to tell us what we can and cannot do. they really should be promoting responsible drinking, not treating us like little kids. i dont understand how we will learn "responsible social conduct" in beta if they try to hold our hand for 4 years.

and yeah, it definitely hurts us in recruiting. and what oldest pledge is referring to about chartering requirements...this has caused a lot of distrust and corruption within the brotherhood. certain people dont trust other brothers because theyre afraid they will drink in the house and fuck it up for everyone. so in turn, everyone is hiding stuff from one another.

[ECUJacob]

I believe most laws, and the courts they are argued in, are based on what a reasonable person would think or do in a situation. Given this premise, I would think that you all have taken that little piece of rule to its furthest extreme.

Where applicable means exactly that. It signifies that this rule does not apply to 100% of situations in Beta's broad domain.