new member programs preparing you for life as an active

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Sounds like Tri-Sig has the right idea.

We do have a requirement program to become an initiated member, in a way. It isn't very demanding though...at least not as demanding as being an active member is. I DO think that newly initiated members get burned out because TELLING them about required events isn't the same as them actually DOING them. Their only required events usually end up being fun sisterhood retreats and initiation requirements.

I have said myself I wish I could be in a fraternity before. I love Alpha Gam. But sometimes it does seem like brotherhood is stronger than sisterhood, and I haven't seen many guys in any fraternity on campus drop out like the girls do. I do think the slope is skewed and I do think it affects retention rates.

[tld221]

Originally Posted by ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl

Sounds like Tri-Sig has the right idea.

We do have a requirement program to become an initiated member, in a way. It isn't very demanding though...at least not as demanding as being an active member is. I DO think that newly initiated members get burned out because TELLING them about required events isn't the same as them actually DOING them. Their only required events usually end up being fun sisterhood retreats and initiation requirements.

I have said myself I wish I could be in a fraternity before. I love Alpha Gam. But sometimes it does seem like brotherhood is stronger than sisterhood, and I haven't seen many guys in any fraternity on campus drop out like the girls do. I do think the slope is skewed and I do think it affects retention rates.

i agree, but that is the nature of relationships between men anyway vs. women. it does seem like women are more likely to drop membership than men are. for whatever reasons it may be.

[ΑΓΔSquirrelGirl]

Originally Posted by tld221

i agree, but that is the nature of relationships between men anyway vs. women. it does seem like women are more likely to drop membership than men are. for whatever reasons it may be.

I agree with that. I think changing the new member process though might have SOME effect on retention rates.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by tld221

i agree, but that is the nature of relationships between men anyway vs. women. it does seem like women are more likely to drop membership than men are. for whatever reasons it may be.

I'm guess it has to do with how men and women handle conflict. If a guy has a problem with a brother, they duke it out (verbally or physically) and it's over. When a girl has a problem with a sister, they hide it, let it fester, get catty with that sister, try to get other sisters on their side and to turn against the sister they feel wronged them, etc, etc until someone has quit over it.

[AOII Angel]

I totally disagree with this line of thinking. I don't think you have to do chores to "earn" the right to be initiated. Hazing does not make a stronger brotherhood or sisterhood. Women and men are very different and so are the members of the NPC and the IFC. Comparing drop out rates for women and men is like comparing apples to oranges. Men join fraternities for a very different reason than women join sororities. My older sister was in the last "pledge" class at my chapter, and I was in the first "new member" class. She had to wait an entire semester for initiation while I had to wait six weeks. She said the only difference in the equation was time. She went to a lot more meetings than I did, but she felt she was no more "prepared" than I to become an initiated member. Her pledge education included things like memorizing the letters of the greek alphabet (sorry...how important is that really?!) My new member education was pared down to the basics of what sisterhood meant. My sisters and I were smart enough and worthy enough to get "it" within the six week period. Change is hard, but it's not good enough to justify not changing because "Well...I had to do it that way!" or "I had to be hazed to be a real brother (or sister.)" That's a cop out!
By the way, I just saw the Tri Sigma program on the internet. It really is a nice system. That may be what the other NPC groups should model their own member education programs after.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by cuteASAbug

This quote in another thread got me thinking- with all of the movement to eliminate hazing in any form and to make sure that new members are never uncomfortable and are never made to do anything that's not voluntary- how well do you think your organization's new member program prepares its new members for what to expect as an active? One thing that bugs me about hazing rules is that with the exception of Phoenix and Sanctuary degrees, you pretty much can't make anything mandatory for new members without it being called hazing. However, after you're initiated, just about anything and everything is mandatory, so I don't think that does a good job of teaching new members what to expect. I would be concerned with girls pledging, getting initiated, and then becoming disgruntled or leaving the sorority once they found out that now they had to go to everything whether they liked it or not, and that they'd be fined if they didn't show up. Any thoughts?

We had a girl who became a Phi (new member) and at first it was all "oh cool she's a cool girl". She came to I THINK ONE Phi meeting. She came to initiation and during it I was so pissed, as well as some other sisters. We wanted her out because if you're not going to do as little work as come to a meeting once a week, what are you going to bring to the sorority? She brought nothing. Didn't come to regular weekly meetings, no mandatory things, no business meetings, no rituals. I was very bothered that she got in. She used some kind of family problem excuse but funny that she was going clubbing almost every night and vacationing in Cali and a bunch of other stuff.

And that's the thing.... we baby our Phis. We DO shower them with gifts and if they screw up, we can't kick them out. I believe to release them there is this big process to go through and people are too lazy to do it. I don't want to haze. I don't think we should be doing bad things to them, but 80% of the stuff that is considered hazing is ridiculous. You should make them want it, not just give them a cake walk.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

We had a girl who became a Phi (new member) and at first it was all "oh cool she's a cool girl". She came to I THINK ONE Phi meeting. She came to initiation and during it I was so pissed, as well as some other sisters. We wanted her out because if you're not going to do as little work as come to a meeting once a week, what are you going to bring to the sorority? She brought nothing.

Wow. I'm surprised that you all don't have some sort of course of action for girls like that.

Our LCs and national staff always say: You do not have to initiate anyone who doesn't meet the requirements for initiation. If a girl doesn't come to meetings (or provide valid excuses and do a make-up when she's absent), maintain her GPA, complete all of the new member activities, and pass the national exam, she does not get initiated at that time. She is given the option to be held over (and complete the new member period with the next class), but she does not get initiated with her group. Alternately, she could get pissed and depledge, and we say "good riddance."

We had two situations last semester with this. There were 2 new members who were both habitually absent. One was partying alot and not studying enough. The other would just always decide "well I live 20 minutes away from campus, that's too far for me to drive to the sorority house for meeting" or that she'd "rather be with her boyfriend." (those were her exact words)

About a week before initiation, it was pretty clear that they weren't going to be initiated. So our VP sat them both down separately to tell them. We all totally thought the Partyer was going to depledge and that Boyfriend Girl was going to go ahead and stay. Partyer cried, and said she felt bad but that she really wanted to be there and that she'd stick it out with the next group and get initiated with the next class. She is now one of the most involved younger members of the chapter with the highest GPA. Boyfriend got really mad and depledged. She actually pledged another sorority in the spring and dropping out of it too before initiation because she was leaving school to plan her wedding.

[cuteASAbug]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

We had two situations last semester with this. There were 2 new members who were both habitually absent. One was partying alot and not studying enough. The other would just always decide "well I live 20 minutes away from campus, that's too far for me to drive to the sorority house for meeting" or that she'd "rather be with her boyfriend." (those were her exact words)

About a week before initiation, it was pretty clear that they weren't going to be initiated. So our VP sat them both down separately to tell them. We all totally thought the Partyer was going to depledge and that Boyfriend Girl was going to go ahead and stay. Partyer cried, and said she felt bad but that she really wanted to be there and that she'd stick it out with the next group and get initiated with the next class. She is now one of the most involved younger members of the chapter with the highest GPA.

Just curious, when something like this happens, does the girl have to go through the pinning ritual again with the following new member class?

[KyleMcGuire1983]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

I totally disagree with this line of thinking. I don't think you have to do chores to "earn" the right to be initiated. Hazing does not make a stronger brotherhood or sisterhood. Women and men are very different and so are the members of the NPC and the IFC. Comparing drop out rates for women and men is like comparing apples to oranges. Men join fraternities for a very different reason than women join sororities. My older sister was in the last "pledge" class at my chapter, and I was in the first "new member" class. She had to wait an entire semester for initiation while I had to wait six weeks. She said the only difference in the equation was time. She went to a lot more meetings than I did, but she felt she was no more "prepared" than I to become an initiated member. Her pledge education included things like memorizing the letters of the greek alphabet (sorry...how important is that really?!) My new member education was pared down to the basics of what sisterhood meant. My sisters and I were smart enough and worthy enough to get "it" within the six week period. Change is hard, but it's not good enough to justify not changing because "Well...I had to do it that way!" or "I had to be hazed to be a real brother (or sister.)" That's a cop out!
By the way, I just saw the Tri Sigma program on the internet. It really is a nice system. That may be what the other NPC groups should model their own member education programs after.

1) Well the "chores" we "force" our boys to do are just house duties that EVERYBODY has to do. I'm the Vice President and I'm mopping the kitchen floor while a pledge is cleaning the sink. So I think that's more just having house rules than putting pledges on some kind of lower level.

2) As stated in our LEAD Manual (pledge book) knowing the Greek Alphabet and being familiar with it is out of respect to other organizations. At least that's the Sigma Nu philosophy and I couldn't agree more....I'm embarassed when some guys don't know what a Rho looks like or a Xi! It's basic diplomacy.

3) Men join fraternities for brotherhood do women not join for the same reason? I don't mean to turn all of NPC on me here it just seems that the retention rates are completely out of whack. I know I know, glass houses.....the NIC system is pretty rough as well with hazing and what not...

[Buttonz]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

I don't want to haze. I don't think we should be doing bad things to them, but 80% of the stuff that is considered hazing is ridiculous. You should make them want it, not just give them a cake walk.

I agree. For us, we have six things that a new member must do to become a sister. I don't think there is wrong with making them want it and they having to do certain things. Making a girl attend NM meetings and stuff is not hazing

[AlexMack]

I've said this to other people, but I do think the no-hazing rule is getting out of hand. The one example I have from my own NM period is that during I-week, it used to be traditional for the NM class to spend each night, sundown to sunup, at the house.
My class was the first not to be required to do that because it was considered hazing. We all wanted to do it, every single woman in my NM class wanted to spend each night at the house, but we weren't allowed. I think it was one of those things where we just wanted to follow in the chapter tradition-to us it wasn't hazing in any way, it was just more time to bond as a class.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

2) As stated in our LEAD Manual (pledge book) knowing the Greek Alphabet and being familiar with it is out of respect to other organizations. At least that's the Sigma Nu philosophy and I couldn't agree more....I'm embarassed when some guys don't know what a Rho looks like or a Xi! It's basic diplomacy.

Not to mention knowing the other chapters in your own organization!

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by KyleMcGuire1983

1) Well the "chores" we "force" our boys to do are just house duties that EVERYBODY has to do. I'm the Vice President and I'm mopping the kitchen floor while a pledge is cleaning the sink. So I think that's more just having house rules than putting pledges on some kind of lower level.

2) As stated in our LEAD Manual (pledge book) knowing the Greek Alphabet and being familiar with it is out of respect to other organizations. At least that's the Sigma Nu philosophy and I couldn't agree more....I'm embarassed when some guys don't know what a Rho looks like or a Xi! It's basic diplomacy.

3) Men join fraternities for brotherhood do women not join for the same reason? I don't mean to turn all of NPC on me here it just seems that the retention rates are completely out of whack. I know I know, glass houses.....the NIC system is pretty rough as well with hazing and what not...

I have nothing against doing work for the chapter. If all members have to do chores to make sure the house stays in good condition, there is nothing wrong with that, and I agree that NMs should not be excluded. BUT, to say that brotherhood/sisterhood is lessened by not being expected to do chores (even if initiated members have to but not NMs) is stupid. I've already addressed your second point in my above posting. As to your third point, I agree that men join fraternities for brotherhood, but I think I can argue successfully that what a man expects from brotherhood is very different from what a woman expects from sisterhood. It's the same with children. Boys are rough when they play...usually girls are not as rough. As a woman, I would not have put up with being hazed, and I certainly don't believe that it would help improve retention! Of course I do agree that what is considered hazing these days is ridiculous. As for why our NMs are treated well as NMs, it is to show them the love and support that is at the heart of membership in our organizations. If a woman is looking for a place to degrade, humiliate or injure her sisters, she needs to look somewhere other than an NPC group. If the price of excluding people looking for this type of "sisterhood" is low retention numbers, I say keep retention low...I'm happier with the women who are there for the right reasons!

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Her pledge education included things like memorizing the letters of the greek alphabet (sorry...how important is that really?!)

EXTREMELY!!!

Are you effing kidding me????

[epchick]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Her pledge education included things like memorizing the letters of the greek alphabet (sorry...how important is that really?!)

Are you kidding me? Its EXTREMELY important!! I am a firm believer that if your greek, you should know the greek alphabet. If you were to look at someone's letters, do you really just want to stare and say "what are those letters?" I know I wouldn't.