Students don't get diploma due to excess cheering from crowd

[CutiePie2000]

There's an etiquette advice columnist who I enjoy reading (Darcey Smart) and to quote her wise words:
"We live in a world where a hint of criticism is treated as an act of aggression and all and sundry feel entitled to behave any old way they like, with the exception of those of us who dare to speak up in defence of civility and are immeddiated muzzled for our pains."

[kstar]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

This is random, but I'll use an example from another thread to illustrate what I mean: right now, one person is explaining how lying to her GLO to get out of having to staying active when she wanted to go alum was what she needed to do. She admits she lied, but she details how she got around the policies of her group because it's what she wanted to do, and the group couldn't/didn't stop her.

I point that out as a particular illustration of there being some people who don't do what's right or even what they've agreed to do. They instead seem to operate with the idea that they are entitled to do whatever they can get away with.

The same type of thing happens with public behavior at graduation. Most people go along with what's expected. Other people go along because they feel like they've agreed to act a certain way based on being allowed to attend. But a few others seem to take the view that they are entitled to do whatever you can't actually stop them from doing.

So if they know the cops won't come and kick them out, they they will yell or do whatever. For these people, there always have to be a punishment or penalty that they know they will face for doing what other people would just do because it was good manners.

Rather than calling in the people to forcible remove people from the graduation ceremony, this school decided to go with a different but equally undesirable "or what?" or "who is going to make me?" consequence for the people who won't do what they were asked to do. They were going to hold the diplomas of the people they came to see graduate.

They told everyone the plan way in advance. They expected the jerks to modify their behavior as not to penalize the honoree, but the jerks didn't. Now the school just needs to follow through with what was spelled out as the consequence.

I think it's fine. Sooner or later, the jerks will stop being invited to graduation.

But the penalty should always be a threat against the person committing the act, punishing someone else isn't just. What's to stop people who are pissed at another screaming then, preventing that person from getting their diploma?

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by kstar

But the penalty should always be a threat against the person committing the act, punishing someone else isn't just. What's to stop people who are pissed at another screaming then, preventing that person from getting their diploma?

That's how I feel about it too. Besides the fact that it puts a 17 or 18 year old in a horrible position to try to tell their parents that they can't come to graduation. I mean, the kid (and they are still kids, really) has to live with these people, is dependent on them financially and may well need their support to get to college, etc.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by kstar

But the penalty should always be a threat against the person committing the act, punishing someone else isn't just. What's to stop people who are pissed at another screaming then, preventing that person from getting their diploma?

Tickets assigned to a specific graduate. If it's your guest, then you lose. So if you invite the folks who scream for someone else, you lose your diploma, not the person whose name was yelled at.

The graduate did commit an act. He or she invited the losers.

I've got no problem removing or arresting the guest too, but I think it will further ruin the ceremony for the people who have been acting appropriately. ("Graduation was nice this year;they only had to remove 30 guests by force.")

I think you've got to put it on the graduate, so they send the message too: "no, I really don't want you to scream at my name. That's not cool. I want my diploma." And the yellers need to believe that the graduate means it.

I think teenagers have a lot of influence on their parents. In fact, I think a lot of parents are downright manipulated by them. And it I think it's important to remember that the school is asking the parents too. The parents are welcome to come if they won't holler and blast air horns. If a teenager can't depend on his or her parents not to do something they've specifically been asked not to do, this won't be the last time the kids is in an awkward position because of them. And that's not a good enough reason to let them ruin the graduation ceremony.

This policy will work well to create future events with the decorum the rest of the school wants. It penalized the people over whom the school legitimately has control.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Tickets assigned to a specific graduate. If it's your guest, then you lose. So if you invite the folks who scream for someone else, you lose your diploma, not the person whose name was yelled at.

The graduate did commit an act. He or she invited the losers.

I've got no problem removing or arresting the guest too, but I think it will further ruin the ceremony for the people who have been acting appropriately. ("Graduation was nice this year;they only had to remove 30 guests by force.")

I think you've got to put it on the graduate, so they send the message too: "no, I really don't want you to scream at my name. That's not cool. I want my diploma." And the yellers need to believe that the graduate means it.

I think teenagers have a lot of influence on their parents. In fact, I think a lot of parents are downright manipulated by them. And it I think it's important to remember that the school is asking the parents too. The parents are welcome to come if they won't holler and blast air horns. If a teenager can't depend on his or her parents not to do something they've specifically been asked not to do, this won't be the last time the kids is in an awkward position because of them. And that's not a good enough reason to let them ruin the graduation ceremony.

This policy will work well to create future events with the decorum the rest of the school wants. It penalized the people over whom the school legitimately has control.

But here's the thing, the guest can easily ''lose" their tickets if that's an issue, and it'll come down to who they were cheering for. I don't know any high school graduation that has assigned seating.

We didn't have this problem in HS because our graduation is a Mass. But my precommencement in college did. Basically the guy just read the names very clearly into a mike. No one got covered up.

You have really negative view about teenagers and their parents. Believe me, the majority of people I know could not have controlled if their parents/relatives were going to come to graduation. Usually those people can get tickets on their own too.

And yes, it penalized the people the school has control over, but it penalized the wrong people. Removal from the property seems appropriate to me.

[UGAalum94]

Isn't this how things work at most clubs or events?

If you are the member of the organization hosting and your guests do something outrageous, you can expect it to have repercussions for you, right? (Sure they might ask your guests to leave at the time, but that probably won't be the end of it.)

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Maybe the person who does the "name announcing" could pause to let the noise die down, so that the next person following could actually have their name heard by their family. The pauses would add up and take forever, but I guess you've got to do what you've got to do.

That's what my high school and college did. They would say 'Amy So and So' and then she would walk across the stage, get the diploma, do the handshake, pose, and go down the steps. By that point the clapping/yelling was done, so they'd then move on to 'Bob Sorrysoandso' and his family had time to do their thing.

[33girl]

Quite franky, I think behavior like this has something to do with the fact that graduation ceremonies aren't special anymore. They used to have them for high school and college, that was IT. Now, anything is a "milestone." Graduation from middle school or junior high. Graduation from summer camp. Graduation from any old grade. One of my friends just went to a kindergarten graduation, for God's sake. The next thing is going to be slapping a mortar board on a newborn's head to celebrate its "womb graduation."

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Quite franky, I think behavior like this has something to do with the fact that graduation ceremonies aren't special anymore. They used to have them for high school and college, that was IT. Now, anything is a "milestone." Graduation from middle school or junior high. Graduation from summer camp. Graduation from any old grade. One of my friends just went to a kindergarten graduation, for God's sake. The next thing is going to be slapping a mortar board on a newborn's head to celebrate its "womb graduation."

Part of that as well could be that more people are going to college now. It used to be that high school was the high point of most people's academic careers, and now it's more expected that kids will go to some sort of college. The college graduation has taken away a lot of the importance of the high school one.

[UGAalum94]

I was trying to make really clear that I think the majority of teenagers and their parents are excellent*. Really, I do. Very few people make any trouble at all. It's just the small percentage of people who don't care ruin it for the rest.

The rotten apples basically insist that you have punitive policies because you can't depend on them to act right unless something bad will happen to them if you don't.

The school basically has to decide if they are going let everything go or try to do something to make people act right.

Most schools have elected not to follow through with anything. I admire this school for trying to have nice graduations for all the kids and parents who want to mark the occasion with a sense of politeness and decorum, a group I honestly believe probably make up 98% or more of the total group.

I don't think it's the perfect system for many of the reasons you all have mentioned, but I think it could be one important step.

I agree that graduations aren't special anymore, and I might go along with the "it's because so many people go to college" idea except that you see the same behavior at even college graduations. Some people have come to think it's cute to act this way, and they expect to get away with it.

*But I will note that even some of the excellent kids manipulate or try to manipulate their parents. You really don't think this is true?

[AGDee]

My kids had a preschool graduation too. I thought that was a crock.

[Rudey]

It's a racial issue. The white kids didn't get in trouble.

-Rudey

[susan314]

People take air horns to high school graduation ceremonies?

Wow...just wow.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by susan314

People take air horns to high school graduation ceremonies?

Wow...just wow.

I'm not kidding when I say we had a parent bring a cow bell to honors night this year.

And in sort of a response to Rudey: this parent was white, so while in the newspaper article, it does seem like the people getting punished are trying to make it seem racial, race isn't even a factor in the cases I've personally experienced.

[PinkRose1098]

Originally Posted by susan314

People take air horns to high school graduation ceremonies?

Wow...just wow.

I think I remember a few beach balls floating around in the stands at the graduation of the glass before me in high school. The ceremony was also held outside in our football stadium which didn't exactly scream this is a special occasion so let's act like it.