NPHC BGLO's how do you feel about non NPHC BGLO's

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Why will this question be asked? As I said what Delta is, is a sisterhood. What she does is public service. And we believe that the quality of our service is only as strong as our sisterhood. So it is first priority.

(at bolded) So what are the core elements that separates Delta from Alpha Phi Omega if both are about brother/sisterhood and [public] service?

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

(at bolded) So what are the core elements that separates Delta from Alpha Phi Omega if both are about brother/sisterhood and [public] service?

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I have no idea since I know nothing about APO, except what I have read here,nor do I care to know. But one may be that you started as Boy Scouts and we didn't.

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.

Originally Posted by ladygreek

btw, came from a Scouting family--father an Eagle Scout, Order of the Arrow and troop leader, mother a GS troop leader, me from Brownie all the way through MAriner Scout--camp counselor and troop leader. So I am not knocking Scouting.

I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.



I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

My Mom was my leader, so I didn't have much choice. But from there to GS we were always a very "feminist" group--our good soror, my Mom didn't play the gender sterotype. Shoot we even had outings with my Dad's troop and trust, all genders played equal roles in cooking, cleaning, pitching tents, starting the firepit, etc. We were ahead of the times.

I would say that my Scouting years were a major player in the development of me as an independent woman. I could shoot a bow and arrow with the best of the guys and still look cute doing it. LOL

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

My Mom was my leader, so I didn't have much choice. But from there to GS we were always a very "feminist" group--our good soror, my Mom didn't play the gender sterotype. Shoot we even had outings with my Dad's troop and trust, all genders played equal roles in cooking, cleaning, pitching tents, starting the firepit, etc. We were ahead of the times.

I would say that my Scouting years were a major player in the development of me as an independent woman. I could shoot a bow and arrow with the best of the guys and still look cute doing it. LOL

See, I was deprived. I always thought the Scout thing was nonsense because of the whole gender thing.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

I would say that my Scouting years were a major player in the development of me as an independent woman. I could shoot a bow and arrow with the best of the guys and still look cute doing it. LOL

Congrats!

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.

I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

Chaos, you know what?

You just helped me answer my own question (btw your first answer was almost 100% correct). APO actually started as a focus on SCOUTING through which brotherhood can be realized. The service aspect was merely an incidental aspect of Scouting. APO was not officially classified as a Service fraternity until 1940, 15 years after our founding.

So in essence, the (at least original) difference b/t APO and Delta was with APO, it's focus was on Scouting with an emphasis on brotherhood, whereas with Delta, its focus is/was on sisterhood with an emphasis on service.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

You just helped me answer my own question.

DUH.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Chaos, you know what?

You just helped me answer my own question (btw your first answer was almost 100% correct). APO actually started as a focus on SCOUTING through which brotherhood can be realized. The service aspect was merely an incidental aspect of Scouting. APO was not officially classified as a Service fraternity until 1940, 15 years after our founding.

So in essence, the (at least original) difference b/t APO and Delta was with APO, it's focus was on Scouting with an emphasis on brotherhood, whereas with Delta, its focus is/was on sisterhood with an emphasis on service.

1940 sounds about right, I'll have to back through the T&Ts with the results of the Indianapolis 1940 convention.

And I'm willing to take your "in essence" at least for Alpha Phi Omega...

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

LOL.

The difference that I see is that APO started as a focus on service through which brotherhood can be realized.

We started as a focus on sisterhood through which service and empowered communities can be realized.

Actually, arguably we started as a focus on the scout oath and law as a standard of manhood.

From "The story behind the founding", in our pledge ceremony and pledge manual.

(The I is Frank Reed Horton, our founder)
Because of these experiences, I made a firm resolution within myself that if I returned alive, I would try to do two things and do them with all my power. First, do my best to help young people get the right start in life by holding up before them a "standard of manhood" that would withstand the test of time! Second and just as important, try to help the nations of the world settle their disputes in a more sensible and legal manner than by war.

After the war, I became a student at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. One evening, while attending an American Legion banquet during my sophomore year, I sat next to an inspiring man named Herbert G. Horton. We were not related but we became fast friends. He, too, had been a naval officer but was now serving as the local Scout Executive. He helped me to become a Deputy Scout Commissioner. One of the troops needed a leader, so I became a Scoutmaster as well.

Through these experiences, I found that the Scout Oath and Law were what I had been seeking - a standard of manhood that would withstand the test of time and a code of ideals created and accepted by some of the greatest leaders the world has ever known

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

I was a Brownie. The worst thing ever. It served as nothing but a reinforcement of gender stereotypes and expectations. Maybe that was just my Brownie leaders who sucked.

Entirely possible!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by naraht

Actually, arguably we started as a focus on the scout oath and law as a standard of manhood.

From "The story behind the founding", in our pledge ceremony and pledge manual.

(The I is Frank Reed Horton, our founder)
Because of these experiences, I made a firm resolution within myself that if I returned alive, I would try to do two things and do them with all my power. First, do my best to help young people get the right start in life by holding up before them a "standard of manhood" that would withstand the test of time! Second and just as important, try to help the nations of the world settle their disputes in a more sensible and legal manner than by war.

After the war, I became a student at Lafayette College, Easton, Pennsylvania. One evening, while attending an American Legion banquet during my sophomore year, I sat next to an inspiring man named Herbert G. Horton. We were not related but we became fast friends. He, too, had been a naval officer but was now serving as the local Scout Executive. He helped me to become a Deputy Scout Commissioner. One of the troops needed a leader, so I became a Scoutmaster as well.

Through these experiences, I found that the Scout Oath and Law were what I had been seeking - a standard of manhood that would withstand the test of time and a code of ideals created and accepted by some of the greatest leaders the world has ever known

And it is through service that the standard of manhood is realized and mobilized.

I won't comment on the loaded notion of a "standard of manhood."

[KAPital PHINUst]

Naraht, as a side note, did you know that there is a relatively new fraternity that is picking up where Alpha Phi Omega left off, so to speak?

The fraternity is named Epsilon Tau Pi, founded in 1999 at the University of Dayton, and membership is restricted to former Eagle Scouts.

I'll give you the weblink if interested.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Naraht, as a side note, did you know that there is a relatively new fraternity that is picking up where Alpha Phi Omega left off, so to speak?

The fraternity is named Epsilon Tau Pi, founded in 1999 at the University of Dayton, and membership is restricted to former Eagle Scouts.

I'll give you the weblink if interested.

I'm very aware of Epsilon Tau Pi and had an email discussion with one of their members. Alpha Phi Omega never limited itself to only those who had earned eagle scout (you get some people who are very touchy about the term "former eagle scout", with "once an eagle, always an eagle). In fact at least three chapters in the early years of the fraternity were chastised by the National Fraternity for limiting themselves to only Eagle Scouts and early years of the Fraternity magazine contain reminders of that.

Because of that, I don't think of them picking up where we left off.
Having said that, I hope that the APO chapter at Dayton and ETPi work together on service to scouting.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

And it is through service that the standard of manhood is realized and mobilized.

I won't comment on the loaded notion of a "standard of manhood."

Actually, it was worse at the beginning. Gotta love the phrase "Manly strength"

As of the 1926 Yearbook at Lafayette College

The purpose of the fraternity shall be to assemble those who have had experience and training under the Scout Oath and Laws, to revive the spirit of that Oath and Law, to develop friendship, to encourage encourage service, and to enable its members to become leaders of America's youth, through character-building, citizenship, college spirit and manly strength.

See
http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~library/sp.../APOPhoto.html

Today (2007)
The purpose of this Fraternity shall be to assemble college students in a National Service Fraternity inthe fellowship of principles derived from the Scout Oath and Law of the Boy Scouts of America; to developLeadership, to promote Friendship, and to provide Service to humanity; and to further the freedom that is ournational, educational, and intellectual heritage

Randy

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by naraht

Actually, it was worse at the beginning. Gotta love the phrase "Manly strength"

As of the 1926 Yearbook at Lafayette College

The purpose of the fraternity shall be to assemble those who have had experience and training under the Scout Oath and Laws, to revive the spirit of that Oath and Law, to develop friendship, to encourage encourage service, and to enable its members to become leaders of America's youth, through character-building, citizenship, college spirit and manly strength.

See
http://ww2.lafayette.edu/~library/sp.../APOPhoto.html

Hey, if Alpha Phi Alpha can have "manly deeds", Alpha Phi Omega can have "manly strength" *lol*

btw, link is dead.