How does your school handle bidless PNMs on bid day?

[KSUViolet06]

Nothing anyone says is particularly comforting to a girl who is dealing with what is quite possibly the first rejection she's ever had in her life.

In addition, I think that having a non Greek say stuff like "You can have fun at college without being in a sorority. I'm involved in governement, rec league soccer, etc" is not going to comfort her. If she wanted government or soccer, she would've joined that in the first place.

It's like when people suggest that girls join other groups on GC when girls go bidless. It doesn't help because it's not what they want. She wants bigs/littles, date parties, block seating at football games, formal, etc.

I think a preofessional counselor being available is a good idea though because they are a trained professional.

[exlurker]

A question about "bidlessness" in general:

Not long ago some college Panhellenics had "guaranteed placement" policies and procedures, as I understand it. On those campuses, if a PNM was invited to preference and maximized her options, she would get a bid.

Are these "guaranteed placement" policies disappearing? Increasing? Or staying about the same, just depending on the campus?

My sense of how this works (worked) -- in theory -- is that it eliminated being bidless after going through pref. It wouldn't prevent a PNM from being cut from all chapters before pref, thoough.

(These practices -- again, as I understand it -- didn't guarantee getting a first choice. However, a woman who made it to preference would get a bid to one of the chapters that invited her to pref, as long as she listed every chapter she preffed on her card. No guarantees if a PNM intentional-single-preferenced. On the other hand, if a PNM got invited to only one chapter for pref, and listed that chapter, she would get a bid from them.)

[fantASTic]

..Isn't that a bit unfair to the sororities? If they discuss it and decide they don't want her, she could potentially be taking another NM's spot in that sorority.

[33girl]

There are some systems that have guarantees a woman will be OFFERED a bid if she plays by the rules & maximizes her options. It doesn't guarantee that it will be to a sorority she wants anything to do with.

I think this is different than "guaranteed bidding" where pretty much if someone signs up for rush, even if the groups keep dropping her she'll end up being placed somewhere.

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=57088

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...ad.php?t=48395

http://www.greekchat.com/gcforums/sh...d.php?p=276266

I guess that the rationale behind it is somewhat honorable and trying to downplay the snob factor sometimes associated w/ sororities and rush, but the plain truth is that not everyone is suited for sorority life. Not to mention the particular makeup on that certain campus.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I think this is different than "guaranteed placement" where they basically say to the rushee, "so, where would you like to go?" and they put her there.

That reminds me of the women that talked about systems that allowed the PNM to go to more parties than she was actually invited to if she didn't have a full schedule, by either alphabeticly assigning her to one, or begging groups to allow her back. Totally unfair to the PNM and the sorority. The PNM gets her hopes up because she's still got a full schedule, when in reality there are only a few groups (if any) actually considering her...and the sorority has girls that think "Why did XYZ invite THAT girl back??".

[audrey5366]

Originally Posted by 33girl

There are some systems that have guarantees a woman will be OFFERED a bid if she plays by the rules & maximizes her options. It doesn't guarantee that it will be to a sorority she wants anything to do with.

I think this is different than "guaranteed placement" where pretty much if someone signs up for rush, even if the groups keep dropping her she'll end up being placed somewhere.

I can't imagine any system with "guaranteed placement" wherever a PNM wanted to go , but I've seen ones where if you play by all the rules and you don't drop groups or SIP and you make it to pref party, you will recieve a bid to a group that you prefed.
It's pretty much a numbers game at that point-- if quota is made up of the number of women who were invited to pref parties divided by the number of sororities than there would technically be a spot for everyone.
Chapters would go below quota if a girl SIP's somewhere else and isn't high enough on their bid list (in this system, EVERY girl at pref party would have to be listed somewhere on the bid list, essentially it would be your top girls until you hit quota and then an ranked second list of everyone else you would love to take if you had unlimited spots) or if a girl drops out without signing a bid card.

Stil, even this system doesn't keep girls from dropping in between rounds if they don't get the house they want or if they get dropped by every house in the process..

Now that I think of it though, what happens if a girl only attends pref at one house but she is at the bottom of their list and enough girls list that house first above her to be placed on that chapters list-- does she go bidless?? She would have maximized her options but gotten dropped from every other house and still go bidless?? Is this the type of thing avoided by the "guarenteed placement"?

[ForeverRoses]

I don't think garanteed placement means wherever a PNM wants to go, however I also remember during rush, it was drilled into our heads that anyone we invited to pref had better be someone we wanted on our lawn on bid day. The way my school worked, after pref all the houses ranked the girls on a first, second and third bid list- no one was really "cut" after pref. So theoretically, even someone on our third bidlist could end up getting a bid from us. So I don't see it as too much of a stretch for garanteed placement if you maximize your options all through rush (I don't agree with someone only going to one pref even if they were invited to 3 just so that they would get a garanteed bid from that one house).

[exlurker]

To clarify – I was thinking of systems like the ones 33girl, Audrey3566, and ForeverRoses have described. As 33girl points out, there’s no guarantee that the PNM will want to accept the bid she is offered. (However, I think there’s a difference – slight, but a difference -- between no bid at all after pref and a bid to a chapter a PNM doesn’t like.)

33girl: “There are some systems that have guarantees a woman will be OFFERED a bid if she plays by the rules & maximizes her options. It doesn't guarantee that it will be to a sorority she wants anything to do with.”

Audrey3566: “I can't imagine any system with "guaranteed placement" wherever a PNM wanted to go , but I've seen ones where if you play by all the rules and you don't drop groups or SIP and you make it to pref party, you will receive a bid to a group that you preffed.”

ForeverRoses: “I don't think guaranteed placement means wherever a PNM wants to go, however I also remember during rush, it was drilled into our heads that anyone we invited to pref had better be someone we wanted on our lawn on bid day. The way my school worked, after pref all the houses ranked the girls on a first, second and third bid list- no one was really "cut" after pref. So theoretically, even someone on our third bidlist could end up getting a bid from us. So I don't see it as too much of a stretch for guaranteed placement if you maximize your options all through rush (I don't agree with someone only going to one pref even if they were invited to 3 just so that they would get a guaranteed bid from that one house).”

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by audrey5366

Now that I think of it though, what happens if a girl only attends pref at one house but she is at the bottom of their list and enough girls list that house first above her to be placed on that chapters list-- does she go bidless?? She would have maximized her options but gotten dropped from every other house and still go bidless?? Is this the type of thing avoided by the "guarenteed placement"?

As long as she was invited to only one Preference and attended it, she will have completed recruitment "in good faith" and maximized her options. So she will be eligible for quota additions. Campuses who utilize the new release figure method can almost always place "good faith" PNMs as quota additions if they did not match through traditional bid matching. Campuses who don't use RFM yet (not that many left) pretty much do whatever they want.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Guaranteed placement is a bad idea, IMO. If a girl is only invited to one pref party, what's to say that she didn't snub another chapter earlier on? Let's say there are five chapters, and she behaves like a beast at four of them because she only wants to be an XYZ. Hardly fair to let her pick like that and guaranteed her the bid to XYZ.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Nothing anyone says is particularly comforting to a girl who is dealing with what is quite possibly the first rejection she's ever had in her life.

In addition, I think that having a non Greek say stuff like "You can have fun at college without being in a sorority. I'm involved in governement, rec league soccer, etc" is not going to comfort her. If she wanted government or soccer, she would've joined that in the first place.

It's like when people suggest that girls join other groups on GC when girls go bidless. It doesn't help because it's not what they want. She wants bigs/littles, date parties, block seating at football games, formal, etc.

I think a professional counselor being available is a good idea though because they are a trained professional.

I think we're really talking about two different things. You're talking about girls upset enough to need professional counselors. I'm, and I think DeltaBetaBaby too, talking about girls who might be bummed out that it didn't work out like they'd hoped who might benefit from a reminder that there are other aspects to college than Greek Life. I agree that it doesn't 100% make up for the disappointment, but it's still be nice to offer it, particularly with people especially invited for the purpose. I'm kind of thinking similar in general outlook to the folks who do summer orientation.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I think we're really talking about two different things. You're talking about girls upset enough to need professional counselors. I'm, and I think DeltaBetaBaby too, talking about girls who might be bummed out that it didn't work out like they'd hoped who might benefit from a reminder that there are other aspects to college than Greek Life.

Yeah I agree. There are 2 types of bidless PNMs. There's the type who is bummed, but eager to find something else to get involved in and move on with college. Those girls could benefit from talking to a highly-involved non-Greek woman.

Then there's the type who is crushed and thinks college is ruined because she is not in a sorority. Those most likely cannot be comforted by anyone (PX, non-Greek, school counselors). Those are the girls who will probably just need time to realize that yes, college goes on.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Yeah I agree. There are 2 types of bidless PNMs. There's the type who is bummed, but eager to find something else to get involved in and move on with college. Those girls could benefit from talking to a highly-involved non-Greek woman.

Then there's the type who is crushed and thinks college is ruined because she is not in a sorority. Those most likely cannot be comforted by anyone (PX, non-Greek, school counselors). Those are the girls who will probably just need time to realize that yes, college goes on.

I agree. And I think there are some that go back and forth about how big a deal it is and it they are only around happy, happy NPC girls, it starts to seem like a bigger deal.

I never knew anyone personally who left school because of her rush results, but there were rumors to that effect. The president of SGA taking her out for coffee probably wouldn't change that. But the girls I knew who rushed last year and dropped out (because they didn't like their results) probably would have felt better to meet some other successful students who weren't caught up in Greek Life.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I think this is especially important on a campus like my own where greeks are like 22% of the students, but 70% of the SGA, 50% of the senior 100, etc. Some girls rushing obviously have their heart set on a sorority, but others, like myself, just see it initially as a good way to make connections, meet people, etc. Meeting non-greeks would help to some extent.

[AlwaysSAI]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Nothing anyone says is particularly comforting to a girl who is dealing with what is quite possibly the first rejection she's ever had in her life.

In addition, I think that having a non Greek say stuff like "You can have fun at college without being in a sorority. I'm involved in governement, rec league soccer, etc" is not going to comfort her. If she wanted government or soccer, she would've joined that in the first place.

It's like when people suggest that girls join other groups on GC when girls go bidless. It doesn't help because it's not what they want. She wants bigs/littles, date parties, block seating at football games, formal, etc.

I think a preofessional counselor being available is a good idea though because they are a trained professional.

Ditto! Ditto! Ditto! I like the way this girl thinks!