White men in NPHC

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

No, actually I'm objecting to one divorcing skin color from culture and experience. To make a comment based only on skin color and the assumption that a person is one way because of their skin color is ignoring that person's culture and experience. To say no white person is worthy without knowing the individual white person involved individually is ignoring that individual's culture and experience. Do I make sense?

You make sense based on your interpretation of these posts. Not based on what the posts are really saying.

People are judged everyday from the face value of being white, black, handicapped, female, ugly, pretty, short, tall, skinny, fat......

If you want to get beyond the surface, you ask questions and interact with people. It happens to black applicants and black members, as well. Some of us are just more curious when it comes to nonblack applicants and members. But based on your logic, whites shouldn't get any type of questions or curiosity. They should be taken at face value as long as they have the surface qualifications, which is a privilege not even awarded to blacks in our organizations.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

I seem to recall that there was an article in "Essence" magazine about white people in NPHC orgs. I remember reading it when I lived in Toronto, so it would have been circa 2001? I think it was a good article and perhaps worth digging for.

I believe that article was in 90s. (I was still like a sophomore or junior in college)

I'm not sure why people like to mention this article when this topic is discussed. I mean, it fits with the topic but doesn't add anything to it really.

But I met the white Omega from that article at a homecoming a year or so ago. He pledged in the 70s, or something, and was a cutie. Very esteemed and well respected. I'm sure age and reputation trumps being a "white Omega," in such instances.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Which is a HUGE critique that feminist scholars and race scholars have been making for years.

Folks are correct in that "African American psychology" isn't inherently different than everyone else's. But what your class was about was probably more "social psychology" which delves into how our surroundings influence us cognitively, cultural expectations, and meanings. And how the cognitive, expectations, and meanings impacts our surroundings.

Yes well some of us are new to the field

Yep, basically. And, in one of my more recent graduate classes, we discussed multicultural counseling relationships and determined every relationship will be multicultural because you're almost never going to sit down with someone who has the same values and beliefs and upbringing, etc. as you. I'm taking a whole class on it in the fall and am very interested.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

You make sense based on your interpretation of these posts. Not based on what the posts are really saying.

People are judged everyday from the face value of being white, black, handicapped, female, ugly, pretty, short, tall, skinny, fat......

If you want to get beyond the surface, you ask questions and interact with people. It happens to black applicants and black members, as well. Some of us are just more curious when it comes to nonblack applicants and members. But based on your logic, whites shouldn't get any type of questions or curiosity. They should be taken at face value as long as they have the surface qualifications, which is a privilege not even awarded to blacks in our organizations.

I don't really think I'm saying that. I'm really saying that the applicants should be treated like individuals and that if a applicant is white, that person is not dismissed out of hand because of their skin color (or because of assumptions made about them due to their skin color). And it sounds to me like the vast majority of members do this. I was only responding to the few who do not. Yes, I acknowledge they're going to get more and different questions if they're non-black and I think they should. But I also think they should be able to prove their dedication. Someone against white membership will never be satisfied with a white applicant even if that person is more dedicated than the "average" black applicant.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

And it sounds to me like the vast majority of members do this. I was only responding to the few who do not.

So you are just responding directly and indirectly to the 1 (2 at the most) person in this thread who said she absolutely would not vote a white person into the chapter.

Nothing more to say about this topic then.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

So you are just responding directly and indirectly to the 1 (2 at the most) person in this thread who said she absolutely would not vote a white person into the chapter.

Nothing more to say about this topic then.

To rephrase, I was responding about the people who do not. And this was never only about this thread and that person as I've seen it again and again here and on other Greek websites, thus I brought it up as it had been bothering me.

[Wolfman]

If white people only had an inking of the distrust and ambivalence that is a part of cross racial interactions due to the effluence of the legacy of white supremecy in this country. All the jargon about freedom and equality doesn't change the power differentials that are in play in all kinds of social, economic and political interchanges. Africam Americans are very sensitive to this and see certain institutions as bulwarks against the negative intrusion of white power and influence into their sphere of influence. In my experience this explains some of the ambivalence about whites in BGLOs. And, in my own experience, in my fraternity, I think there is a sense in which there is more acceptance of non-black "minority" members, ie, a sort of acknowledgment of "minority" status which gives one more credibility than if one was caucasian. Personally, I believe in inclusive membership, but to assert that there's a racial double standard if some blacks question white membership, needs to be nuanced and contextualized before that label is affixed to these attitudes.

An analogy would be how some in other parts of the world have negative or ambivalent feelings towards America and Americans. We see ourselves in terms of our ideology of freedom and democracy, while others experience of us is more in terms of the "imperialistic" influence of our economic, political and cultural power.

[Laak 315]

So you're basically saying that it is your belief that predominantly white fraternitites/sororities only accept minorities into their organization because they feel they need to fill a quota or just so they can say they include all people? You don't believe there are any predominantly white fraternities/sororities that accept minorities because of what they contribute to the organization or because the white members truly believe that the person in question has a lot to offer? That's what I'm getting from your statement.

[Wolfman]

Pas de tout! I don't even understand your reply, if you are addressing my post. I was specifically addressing some attitudes expressed in this thread and hopefully trying to bring some clarity to this sentiments expressed, that to automatically to label them "racist" may not be totally accurate; there more to it than that, it'a more complicated than what can parse from the words. They have to be put in their proper socio-historical context. It's about understanding and shedding light.

Originally Posted by Laak 315

So you're basically saying that it is your belief that predominantly white fraternitites/sororities only accept minorities into their organization because they feel they need to fill a quota or just so they can say they include all people? You don't believe there are any predominantly white fraternities/sororities that accept minorities because of what they contribute to the organization or because the white members truly believe that the person in question has a lot to offer? That's what I'm getting from your statement.

[Laak 315]

I understood credibility to be the underlying issue...

[Wolfman]

Unwittingly, you've made my point! Thanks. Nuff said.

Originally Posted by Laak 315

I understood credibility to be the underlying issue...

[Laak 315]

credibility is open to interpretation...someone's credibility is not set in stone just because of one person's opinion...that would be faulty rhetoric

[PrettyBoy]

Black greek organizations and white greek organizations are still very segregated, which is unfortunate. My fraternity was founded based on "Achievement". Our Founding Fathers specifically said that it didn't matter what race, or religion a man was/is even though Kappa Alpha Psi was founded on Christain beliefs. I joined this fraternity, so I have to stick with what the founders said. It doesn't matter, as long as the member will make the fraternity better than what it is. Me personally, I wouldn't join a WGLO because I find them quite boring, and also because some of the things they do don't fit me. Still, I would never discourage a white man from joining my fraternity and becoming my brother.

Of course, unless I didn't like his character.

[rhoyaltempest]

I don't post much but I just had to add my 2 cents to this one. If you are really sincere in wanting to join one of the D9 fraternities and you truly can embrace the idea of serving the African American community for the rest of your life, then I say go for it...as long as you understand what kind of commitment you'd be making. As for getting accepted, you'll never know until you try.

And just to show everyone that we're not lieing when we say we have non-Black members, below are some of the members from our Iota Psi chapter at the University of Michigan (view their site at http://www.umich.edu/~sgrho/). As you can see, this chapter is pretty diverse.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by PrettyBoy

Black greek organizations and white greek organizations are still very segregated, which is unfortunate. My fraternity was founded based on "Achievement". Our Founding Fathers specifically said that it didn't matter what race, or religion a man was/is even though Kappa Alpha Psi was founded on Christain beliefs. I joined this fraternity, so I have to stick with what the founders said. It doesn't matter, as long as the member will make the fraternity better than what it is. Me personally, I wouldn't join a WGLO because I find them quite boring, and also because some of the things they do don't fit me. Still, I would never discourage a white man from joining my fraternity and becoming my brother.

Of course, unless I didn't like his character.

What about our organizations do you find "boring"? Please humor me.

........yeah, too bad we don't line up on stage, yell, and do choreographed ridiculous dances. I guess we are pretty boring....what, with only our formals, bar tabs, philanthropy events, game days, exchanges, rush trips, retreats, parties, etc. etc. etc. to fall back on.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

I don't post much but I just had to add my 2 cents to this one. If you are really sincere in wanting to join one of the D9 fraternities and you truly can embrace the idea of serving the African American community for the rest of your life, then I say go for it...as long as you understand what kind of commitment you'd be making. As for getting accepted, you'll never know until you try.

And just to show everyone that we're not lieing when we say we have non-Black members, below are some of the members from our Iota Psi chapter at the University of Michigan (view their site at http://www.umich.edu/~sgrho/). As you can see, this chapter is pretty diverse.

Sweet Jesus.