LCA fez on Ebay. Wow...

[dever860]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

That's just the thing Tom. We always felt leadership didn't come from HQ, but from within our Zeta. We always felt there was a disconnect between HQ and the chapters. Maybe it was because of the physical distance? Maybe we didn't get as much attention due to our size? We never really could afford as a chapter to go to all the conferences and meetings.

We just never thought HQ ever really understood our particular situation. And I wouldn't expect them to, especially with 100's of other zetas, they cannot be specific to each one.

Just remember, some zeta's had the ability and resources to grow close with HQ, while others never had that benefit.

I also think that at the time before email and electronic communication, there was a communications breakdown with HQ and the chapters. Some of you youngsters have to remember that back in 98 and 97, we didn't have the ability to email or electronically fill out forms.

Today it is so much easier to contact HQ and get the necessary resources.

A Zeta that is not close to HQ is not a bad Zeta. A Zeta that is close to HQ is not a good Zeta. We all adapt to what is available and what is best for our brotherhood, chapter and university.

I totally relate on many of those points and at one point did agree them all at some point, some I still do. I was raised to not entirely trust nationals because and I will swear to this, the first week I was an AM LCAP decided kick us out of our house. I know this is a touchy subject around here and I have elaborated previously. I was raised from the start after this very traumatizing event that nationals did not receive our chapter all that well.

Since becoming an officer and having a lot more contact with nationals, and by no means is this trying to contradict you, I have come to several conclusions:
1. If nationals isin't paying special attention you, you are doing something right, or you aren't doing anything all that bad.

2. You can't just expect nationals to telepathically know when you need help, you have to ask. Everyone at nationals so far that I have talked are all great brothers and really truly do want to help or they wouldn't be there.

3. In addition to above, HQ has a bunch of resources to help chapters out, many of which brothers don't take advantage of. Its amazing how much help you can get with a friendly email. Odds are the guys who are there at one point needed help themselves and can sympathize.

Commenting on the technology aspect, I happened to have personally talked to Jason Pearce on the phone a few weeks back about several things. He went into detail about the new website he is designing, and from the mental image I formed it will most likely revolutionize the way brothers, zetas, and HQ collaborates. And based on my knowledge of todays internet, this will be like nothing any other fraternity currently has, that I know of. Picture a world where there is a single website that all Zeta's and brothers will have appropriate access to LCA's database of 250,000+. Everything will be integrated and communication with alumni will be as easy as type, click, send.

He got me pretty excited about it, and you could tell from the way he was talking he was extremely excited about its potential.

[GammaZeta]

Dever, all your points are true. For #2 and #3, it is a little different from where we came from.

HQ is fine for most of the chapters, the larger one's, primarily in the south to mid-west. They have a general plan and resources that are fine for the majority of chapters. It's not an issue of them wanting to help, just sometimes they can't help.

Umass-Amherst was a little "unique". When our numbers were on the low end, we did ask HQ for help and they did respond positively. They sent out one of their best recruiters for 1 or 2 weeks, can't remember. The recruiter did EVERYTHING in their book, cold called people, spent days just randomly going up to guys and started talking, make little cards, and on and on. He did a great job trying to recruit. However, we didn't get a single guy from his 2 weeks trying to recruit.

He was a great guy, but the way he was trained and his tactics given to him by HQ simply did not work at our campus. If he was in Iowa, I'd say yeah, they probably would work great. But having a mixture of prissy Long Island guys, stoned out hippie men, Massholes, and kids from Southie Boston, all of whom never had any intention on joining a frat in the first place, is not the group you randomly go up to on their way to class and turn on the southern charm.

About 90% of the people I witnessed him go up to thought he were hitting on them (Umass has a big gay population). Actually, his first week there was "Coming Out Week" and they had "Queerfest".

It's not HQ's fault. They are in charge of 200 Zeta's. We never expected them to have an individualized game plan for us.

It's almost impossible to apply a generalized theory primarily aimed at campuses of 50-75% greek from the South or Mid-West and apply it to a 2% greek university in the Northeast.

When I was active, we really never got any "leadership" from HQ. We got orders, rules, books, notices, phone calls, evaluations, and on and on. But we never got LEADERSHIP.

We never had anyone outside of our chapter to inspire us. We never had a reason to care who was on the GHZ, or the executive board. It never mattered to us, just tell us where to send the checks and when our next ELC visit is.

We never had anyone from HQ inspire us to reach beyond our own chapter and become a part of the national LXA.

Honestly, I don't know what, if anything, could have been done to change that. I'm just telling you how we feel. Getting the C and C every few months, or a new Paed just isn't inspirational.

The reality is that some chapters, like ours, just will never fit the national mold or image. That is why I will always be a big supporter of regional offices, and dismante HQ to just a leadership board, and give the power to the area offices.

[dever860]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Dever, all your points are true. For #2 and #3, it is a little different from where we came from.

The reality is that some chapters, like ours, just will never fit the national mold or image. That is why I will always be a big supporter of regional offices, and dismante HQ to just a leadership board, and give the power to the area offices.

Theres a reason the confederate government didn't work, a lack of a strong central government along with a bunch of states doing whatever they wanted and no way to enforce it. Regional offices would be nice, and perhaps may or may not give chapters more face time. Thing with regional offices is that how many do you expect they have? 1 for each state, 1 for each of the main US regions like the judicial system? I still think you would have the same problems if not more with that plan. Regional offices would mean fewer people on staff because of obvious budgetary problems, I have a feeling it would just make things worse. All that and the fact that it would take years to convert. You think nationals moves slow now? Wait till they are trying to setup a bunch of regional governments and continue with daily business.

Sorry for focusing on just one of your points. As far as the other stuff goes I can totally relate, there seemed to be quarters where nationals was about ready to give up on us and there was the sentiment that they outright didn't like us because of past transgressions well before I was alive. I talked to my ELC recently and he kinda set me straight on the whole issue. Basically he figures the turnover policy at nationals is just that, by the time you are halfway through college there are already all new faces on staff for the most part. Some positions this is not true for of course. Perhaps you got a bad few years, and I cant say that you didn't because you were there I wasn't. Perhaps this is me being optimistic for the future, maybe because my young age and lack of experience.

I can also relate to your problem with the national image, in the opposite way. Ohio State is very much the national image, perhaps we are not? We have always had that problem I suppose. Thats a lot of the appeal I had joining, we just weren't the average fraternity.

Different for everyone I guess. I have seen support drastically increase since Ive been here, and thats just personally. A lot of it is because I actively go look for support, I can't badmouth nationals as long as they have been supportive of everything since I have been asking.

[GammaZeta]

Yeah, regional offices is a dream of mine. Imagine having 3-5 full time staffers just servicing chapters in the Northeast? They would know the chapters and their needs.

"they outright didn't like us because of past transgressions well before I was alive"

Don't fool yourself. HQ has and does hold grudges. Even though there is a high turnover rate, the grudges and prejudice get passed down from master to apprentice for many employment generations. People talk and gossip. Someone who has a personal agenda can easily defame a chapter while hanging around the water cooler to compensate...

Of course the ELC wouldn't admit it. That's like asking David Duke to give you a history lesson. (this is not to imply anything racist, simply to illustrate the point that their reasons and answers may be skewed and not unbiased.)

[dever860]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Yeah, regional offices is a dream of mine. Imagine having 3-5 full time staffers just servicing chapters in the Northeast? They would know the chapters and their needs.

"they outright didn't like us because of past transgressions well before I was alive"

Don't fool yourself. HQ has and does hold grudges. Even though there is a high turnover rate, the grudges and prejudice get passed down from master to apprentice for many employment generations. People talk and gossip. Someone who has a personal agenda can easily defame a chapter while hanging around the water cooler to compensate...

Of course the ELC wouldn't admit it. That's like asking David Duke to give you a history lesson. (this is not to imply anything racist, simply to illustrate the point that their reasons and answers may be skewed and not unbiased.)

We all should bury the hatchet then. Find someone to put up the money for 255,000 shots of Jamison and we can make a toast.

[GammaZeta]

Yeah, I wish it were that simple. I should have also mentioned that it is a two way street. Some chapters just don't trust HQ as well.

We're all human, it's going to happen.

[JonoBN41]

Originally Posted by GammaZeta

Dever, all your points are true. For #2 and #3, it is a little different from where we came from.

HQ is fine for most of the chapters, the larger one's, primarily in the south to mid-west. They have a general plan and resources that are fine for the majority of chapters. It's not an issue of them wanting to help, just sometimes they can't help.

Umass-Amherst was a little "unique". When our numbers were on the low end, we did ask HQ for help and they did respond positively. They sent out one of their best recruiters for 1 or 2 weeks, can't remember. The recruiter did EVERYTHING in their book, cold called people, spent days just randomly going up to guys and started talking, make little cards, and on and on. He did a great job trying to recruit. However, we didn't get a single guy from his 2 weeks trying to recruit.

He was a great guy, but the way he was trained and his tactics given to him by HQ simply did not work at our campus. If he was in Iowa, I'd say yeah, they probably would work great. But having a mixture of prissy Long Island guys, stoned out hippie men, Massholes, and kids from Southie Boston, all of whom never had any intention on joining a frat in the first place, is not the group you randomly go up to on their way to class and turn on the southern charm.

About 90% of the people I witnessed him go up to thought he were hitting on them (Umass has a big gay population). Actually, his first week there was "Coming Out Week" and they had "Queerfest".

It's not HQ's fault. They are in charge of 200 Zeta's. We never expected them to have an individualized game plan for us.

It's almost impossible to apply a generalized theory primarily aimed at campuses of 50-75% greek from the South or Mid-West and apply it to a 2% greek university in the Northeast.

When I was active, we really never got any "leadership" from HQ. We got orders, rules, books, notices, phone calls, evaluations, and on and on. But we never got LEADERSHIP.

We never had anyone outside of our chapter to inspire us. We never had a reason to care who was on the GHZ, or the executive board. It never mattered to us, just tell us where to send the checks and when our next ELC visit is.

We never had anyone from HQ inspire us to reach beyond our own chapter and become a part of the national LXA.

Honestly, I don't know what, if anything, could have been done to change that. I'm just telling you how we feel. Getting the C and C every few months, or a new Paed just isn't inspirational.

The reality is that some chapters, like ours, just will never fit the national mold or image. That is why I will always be a big supporter of regional offices, and dismante HQ to just a leadership board, and give the power to the area offices.

I generally refrain from quoting entire long posts, but this one deserves it. It seemed to read well at first, then I mowed the lawn and realized someone could copy and paste it into the history books as to why Gamma Zeta failed.

"Umass-Amherst was a little 'unique'."

Every school is unique.

"The recruiter did EVERYTHING in their book (what did you do?), cold called people (did you?), spent days just randomly going up to guys and started talking (did the chapter?), make little cards (did you?), and on and on." On and on what? Nowhere do you say what you or the chapter did. "He did a great job trying to recruit. However, we didn't get a single guy from his 2 weeks trying to recruit."

He did a great job and you didn't get a single guy. What did you do? Just sit there watching him?

"But having a mixture of prissy Long Island guys, stoned out hippie men, Massholes, and kids from Southie Boston, all of whom never had any intention on joining a frat in the first place, is not the group you randomly go up to on their way to class and turn on the southern charm."

At my school in Florida 90% were from the north, 75% were from the northeast, 25% were from Long Island, and our High Alpha was from Southie Boston.This arguement is not the least bit valid.

"About 90% of the people I witnessed him go up to thought he were hitting on them (Umass has a big gay population)."

Oh, so you did just sit there watching him for two weeks.

"It's not HQ's fault."

You got that right. Never on these boards have I seen you take responsibility for your chapter's demise. You're very good on blaming it on everyone else and everything else, however. Blaming a failed recruitment on "Coming out Week" is nothing short of laughable.

"It's almost impossible to apply a generalized theory primarily aimed at campuses of 50-75% greek from the South or Mid-West and apply it to a 2% greek university in the Northeast."

This is a curious statement in view of the fact that LCA (and other GLOs) are doing well at:
Boston
Connecticut
Cornell
Maine
MIT
New Hampshire
Polytechnic
Rensselaer
Worcester

"When I was active, we really never got any "leadership" from HQ. We got orders, rules, books, notices, phone calls, evaluations, and on and on. But we never got LEADERSHIP."

Well, boo-hoo. Leadership comes from WITHIN. Within the chapter, and within you. You can get up and do something, or you can sit on your butts and whine that no one's giving you leadership. It's a bunch of bs.

"We never had anyone outside of our chapter to inspire us."

Double boo-hoo. You poor children. Do you think that other chapters get monthly visits from the entire Grand High Zeta, the executive vp, and the entire staff, who give us all hugs and warm fuzzies? Get real. This is just more nonsensical whining. Inspire your own self.

"Honestly, I don't know what, if anything, could have been done to change that."

I do! Should I spell it out? You could have gotten off your asses and kept your chapter going instead of blaming everyone and everything - except yourselves.

"I'm just telling you how we feel."

Me too.

I suppose now you'll either lay into me for speaking my mind, or say you were just kidding. "Haha, did you think I was serious?" Yes, I think you were serious.

Have a nice weekend.

[Ottor 246]

Standing ovation.

[Trey_P-I_47]

All I can say is WOW.......I have never seen Jono respond like that......Kudos Brother Jono

[NutBrnHair]

:::::::::::::applauding from the peanut gallery::::::::::::::::::

[dever860]

Originally Posted by Trey_P-I_47

All I can say is WOW.......I have never seen Jono respond like that......Kudos Brother Jono

I was serious about the 250k shots of Jamie..... Any takers?

[GammaZeta]

Jono, remember what they say about ASSuming. Maybe you could get your head out of your ass and actually read what I posted.

We went along with the LXA recruitment program. It didn't work. We did cold call people. We did go up to random people. We did everything he advised and then some. We went word for word by his playbook. Guess what, generalized LXA recruitment methods DON'T work everywhere.

"This arguement is not the least bit valid."

Oh yes it is. I didn't realize that you actually went to Umass-Amherst and recruited guys. How come you never stopped by the house? I'm sure you knew that our campus was segregated. I'm great that you are able to make sweeping generalizations about the Umass campus considering your unique knowledge of it by going to a school in FLORIDA. Could you tell me something else about the Umass-Amherst experience that I didn't know? I forgot that you actually recruited before on the campus.

I'm sure you knew that fraternities at Amherst have been discriminated against. I'm sure you knew that freshman from day one are brainwashed by the town, administration and upper classman to not join a fraternity. See, it's not just Gamma Zeta that has failed, the entire greek population at Umass has been failing since 1997. I'm sure you knew that Umass-Amherst recently bought and tore down 7 fraternity houses, or that the Town of Amherst recently denied renewing or giving zoning regulations allowing for fraternity/sorority house.

But you are right and I'm wrong. Every single new student at Umass has the intention on joining a frat, they simply forget when they arrive. Because a 30,000 student campus which only has less than 1.5%-2% greek population is just TEEMING with students wanting to go greek. It's just that they never got around to it. That must be it.

I didn't blame the failed recruitment on "Coming Out Week", moron. It was a funny story. Going up to guys at the campus center on sidewalks written in pink chalk advertising gay pride and coming out while saying "Hey there, what's your name? I have something to tell you about". Yes Professor Jono, that didn't freak anyone out or make anyone uncomfortable. Thank you for your knowledge.

I'll take responsibility for my chapter's demise when I am responsible for it. It couldn't have been the town closing down chapter house after chapter house for minor safety violations 3-4 times a semester. It couldnt have been the town forcing us to replace a $500 window because it was an 1/8 of an inch off. It couldn't be because Umass wants to discontinue the greek program. It couldn't be because 3/4 of all fraternities that were there when I was are now gone. Gamma Zeta was the exception, right? It wasn't enough that we had a president fail out of school trying to make the chapter better.

That's great that all those chapters are doing well. You are right, in fact, by your logic, we should have chapters at Tufts, Boston College, Dartmouth, Hampshire College, University of Vermont, Brown, Yale, Southern Conn., William and Mary, Springfield College, Clark, Brandeis, Bentley, Northeastern, Simmons, Saint Joseph, Trinity, Weslyan, Quinnipiac, Keene... Because by your logic, every campus will support a greek system. So how come we don't have chapters at all those places? After all, if MIT can support a chapter, then every campus in New England can support a chapter.

Oh ok, we should inspire ourselves. Got it. Maybe if you actually read my posts you would have found out that we did depend on ourselves. That was my whole point, that some chapters find LEADERSHIP WITHIN, and NOT from HQ.

And Jono, I hope your chapter never closes. And I am going to lay into you. You are absolutely clueless, period. I would never tell you why your chapter is successful or not. Because I wasn't there. You don't know the kind of sacrifices we made to do everything in our power to keep it going.

So to say what you said. Fine. You are right. Chapters only fail because of the membership.

You are right. We did just sit on our asses. You are all knowing.

If you want to say we never did anything, fine. Go fuck yourself.

Have a nice weekend.

Oh yeah, I also love how you are obsessed with me. You need a life. I relate my opinion and experience and here comes Jono, out of the blue to criticize again. Keep it up, but I still won't go out with you.

[john1082]

Originally Posted by dever860

I happened to have personally talked to Jason Pearce on the phone a few weeks back about several things. He went into detail about the new website he is designing, and from the mental image I formed it will most likely revolutionize the way brothers, zetas, and HQ collaborates.

But we need it NOW not in two or three more years. Indy has had plenty of time to fix the problem.

[dever860]

Originally Posted by john1082

But we need it NOW not in two or three more years. Indy has had plenty of time to fix the problem.

Ive heard the same sentiment expressed by several of my guys when I say there is going to be a new website coming out soon. I don't want to publicly pressure him by giving a date, but from what I understand its quite soon.