Is this legal? Deactivated one NPC, now part of a new NPC.

[UGAalum94]

I'm sorry for not being clearer: it didn't mean that you personally should be looking in the yearbook, just that sometimes that things that the university is presenting as matters of privacy, aren't. And I wasn't thinking of the listing of individual students, but the listing of members on the GLO pages, which I imagine most GLOs do participate in, but maybe not at your campus. The college yearbooks I've looked at list members. They may not have every member, but a girl being listed on a group's page would be reason for further review to see if she had been initiated.

I also wasn't thinking of strictly the very few students who try to join more than one group when I was commenting on the "what's in it for us" attitude; I was thinking about how ineffective that seemed to be as a leadership philosophy with Greek organizations. There's a lot that the Greek Life office really needs to handle that the only benefit to the university is the resolution or prevention of conflicts among the groups.

Other campus organizations deserve attention too, but I think it's rare that there are as many that feel they are in direct competition for members or status, etc. I suspect it's rare that they need as much supervision in terms of alcohol violations and housing issues.

It's rare, as far as I know, that as many other student orgs. have relatively powerful and wealthy national and international groups with lawyers.

Sure the cinema club may really hate sharing an office with the Objectivist society, but I'd be surprised if either were going to sue or get their alums to make a lot of noise with the fund raising folks.

The university, it would seem to me needs to handle the Greek groups well and pro-actively, so the junk doesn't blow up big.

I agree that the issue of girls joining twice isn't likely to be the think that causes the system to fall apart, but it's an area that might be important to the groups in which you've decided not to help them. In the long run, their believing that you aren't there to help them could be a big problem.

[puddintane]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I'm sorry for not being clearer: it didn't mean that you personally should be looking in the yearbook, just that sometimes that things that the university is presenting as matters of privacy, aren't. And I wasn't thinking of the listing of individual students, but the listing of members on the GLO pages, which I imagine most GLOs do participate in, but maybe not at your campus. The college yearbooks I've looked at list members. They may not have every member, but a girl being listed on a group's page would be reason for further review to see if she had been initiated.

I also wasn't thinking of strictly the very few students who try to join more than one group when I was commenting on the "what's in it for us" attitude; I was thinking about how ineffective that seemed to be as a leadership philosophy with Greek organizations. There's a lot that the Greek Life office really needs to handle that the only benefit to the university is the resolution or prevention of conflicts among the groups.

Other campus organizations deserve attention too, but I think it's rare that there are as many that feel they are in direct competition for members or status, etc. I suspect it's rare that they need as much supervision in terms of alcohol violations and housing issues.

It's rare, as far as I know, that as many other student orgs. have relatively powerful and wealthy national and international groups with lawyers.

Sure the cinema club may really hate sharing an office with the Objectivist society, but I'd be surprised if either were going to sue or get their alums to make a lot of noise with the fund raising folks.

The university, it would seem to me needs to handle the Greek groups well and pro-actively, so the junk doesn't blow up big.

I agree that the issue of girls joining twice isn't likely to be the think that causes the system to fall apart, but it's an area that might be important to the groups in which you've decided not to help them. In the long run, their believing that you aren't there to help them could be a big problem.

I apologize that I misunderstood your post.

You are correct, from a practical standpoint, I am very surprised with information technology, that there isn't a collaborative database, that simply lists a member's name, school, Greek organization, and their birthday.

More information is listed in the local phone book, so if I were working in National Headquarters, if they are concerned about privacy, that would be the argument I would use.

You are absolutely correct in the 'need to know' policy being used to temper our practices with a litageous (I probably didn't spell that right), society. You are right on the money with that one

[UGAalum94]

There seems to be an astonishingly wide spectrum of university policies regarding Greek life. Different campus cultures demand different methods. I hope that what you are doing works well on your campus.

It would seem to me that confirmation of membership by name, date of initiation, and campus would be reasonably "safe," and although it seems to me that each campus could maintain this information and make it available if a student agreed to sign a waiver, maybe it does need to happen at the NPC level rather than the university Greek Life offices.

(I'm thinking of an additional form that a transfer student could fill out and send back to her previous office of Greek Life and Campus activities, so of like an activity transcript release, and the old campus verify she had never been a member at the old place.)

All of it may not be worth it in terms of the number of people who attempt to join more than one

[Leslie Anne]

There are just so many problems with this whole thing.

Clearly many colleges and universities simply won't bother with compiling all of the extracurriculars of every student. Whether or not someone tries to join two different NPCs means nothing to them. Even if they did keep the information, a student who was a member of an NPC at one school who knows they're transfering to another school without a chapter of their NPC or with a "weak" chapter that they don't want to affiliate with (and they plan on going through Recruitment again) simply won't sign a waiver to disclose their affiliation. Why would they?

My earlier response to the idea of a giant NPC database may have seemed flippant but I honestly believe it will never happen. An NPC group can't just hand over personal information about their members to someone else even if it's the NPC itself. Can you imagine how many thousands of irate women there would be? And I'm not talking about Social Security Numbers either.

I joined Kappa Delta not XYZ and as far as I'm concerned XYZ has no business having my personal information. NPC would have to pass a resolution in order to be allowed to compile that kind of information. Oh, and that would only entail contacting a few hundred thousand women and asking for their permission and receiving it. It will never happen!

You have tools today such as Facebook, etc. that we didn't have back when I was a collegian. These can help you with getting "the dirt" on PNMs. What it comes down to is doing your own leg-work. If you're really concerned about this issue then bring it up with your chapter and your advisors. There simply isn't going to be an easy solution here.

[Leslie Anne]

I hate to double post but...

This has been an interesting thread and one of the only ones on this topic that hasn't turned ugly. However, considering the number of times this issue is brought up, don't you think it might warrant a sticky either in the Greek Life section or in Sorority (and Fraternity) Recruitment?

It could be quite simple:

Dual Membership

Two NPCs - not allowed
An NPC and an NPHC - not allowed
A local and an NPC - allowed but you may have to drop your membership with the local, ask about it
A service sorority or fraternity and an NPC - allowed

etc., etc.

When someone asks again, they can just be directed to the sticky. End of discussion.

Just a thought.

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

It could be quite simple:

Dual Membership

Two NPCs - not allowed
An NPC and an NPHC - not allowed
A local and an NPC - allowed but you may have to drop your membership with the local, ask about it
A service sorority or fraternity and an NPC - allowed

etc., etc.

When someone asks again, they can just be directed to the sticky. End of discussion.

Just a thought.

Should be stickied and could be etched in stone...but for some reason I doubt it'll be known unless it's broadcasted next to the GreekChat banner on the top of the page.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by OTW

Should be stickied and could be etched in stone...but for some reason I doubt it'll be known unless it's broadcasted next to the GreekChat banner on the top of the page.

lol So true!

[puddintane]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

I joined Kappa Delta not XYZ and as far as I'm concerned XYZ has no business having my personal information. NPC would have to pass a resolution in order to be allowed to compile that kind of information. Oh, and that would only entail contacting a few hundred thousand women and asking for their permission and receiving it. It will never happen!

I don't really think the logistics of it would even have to go that far. If you are a member of an NPC Sorority, that makes you a member of NPC. If such a database was created, NPC would have to create it, and they wouldn't necessarily need to ask for your permission to have it.

Women who are members of a sorority, that want to access the database, would simply register just like they do on their home sorority website...they could have a cross-check database to ensure that Suzie Q, was actually Suzie Q of XYZ Sorority before granting access.

I don't think it would take hardly anything to create, but again, it all boils down to numbers: How often does it happen? Enough to spend the money to create it?

I suspect that the reason we haven't seen one, is because it's rare.

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by puddintane

I don't really think the logistics of it would even have to go that far. If you are a member of an NPC Sorority, that makes you a member of NPC. If such a database was created, NPC would have to create it, and they wouldn't necessarily need to ask for your permission to have it.

I'm actually really curious about this.

I just visited the NPC website and one of the things I noticed was that one of the publications they offer has chapter listings and it's specifically noted that names and addresses are not included. I don't know whether this is because it would constantly have to be updated (probably) or because they don't have the info or because they can't release the info.

I called KD and asked if they keep SSNs, anyone else want to step up to the plate and contact NPC to ask about this?

Conference Office Contact Information:

Mailing Address:
8777 Purdue Road, Suite 117
Indianapolis, IN 46268

Phone: (317) 872-3185
Facsimile: (317) 872-3192
EmaiI: npccentral@npcwomen.org


BTW: I was wrong about the number of women involved. It's actually 3.6 million.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Leslie Anne

Even if they did keep the information, a student who was a member of an NPC at one school who knows they're transfering to another school without a chapter of their NPC or with a "weak" chapter that they don't want to affiliate with (and they plan on going through Recruitment again) simply won't sign a waiver to disclose their affiliation. Why would they?

In my thinking, the failure of a transfer student to sign a waiver would basically say, "hey, everyone, look very carefully at this girl because she's hiding something." From there, groups could do some investigating or just not offer a bid if they can't find out what the deal is.

Almost any other transfer, I would think would sign a waiver saying that the Panhellenic at your old school has permission to reveal if you were a member of a sorority on that campus because they would know that the answer would be a legitimate "no."

[Leslie Anne]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

In my thinking, the failure of a transfer student to sign a waiver would basically say, "hey, everyone, look very carefully at this girl because she's hiding something." From there, groups could do some investigating or just not offer a bid if they can't find out what the deal is.

Almost any other transfer, I would think would sign a waiver saying that the Panhellenic at your old school has permission to reveal if you were a member of a sorority on that campus because they would know that the answer would be a legitimate "no."

Good point!

[SkiingSister]

I know of a sorority where they pledged a woman who transferred in from another school from another NPC sorority. It was policy to check every woman who was not a freshman, not just this woman. Right before her initiation, they ran her against some data base and found out that she had been a member of another NPC sorority.

It really sucked because this woman was a junior and had been elected pledge class president at her new sorority, lived in house, made friends with the other members and then got found out. No one really wanted to be her friend after that. Maybe a few. I heard of other stories on campuses where other sororities didn't check that much. My recommendation, is don't do it or do it at your own risk. There are ways of checking.