Is this legal? Deactivated one NPC, now part of a new NPC.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by Jeau7

I am wondering if any girls in my house have done that.

If a woman has never attended any university but yours, then you're probably safe. (If she had pledged and initiated in another NPC group on your campus, Panhel and the other groups would be able to detect that.)

If its a case of someone who transferred from another university, the only way you could tell is by doing some investigating yourself. (Following whatever procedures your national endorses.) If you have a PNM who transferred from XYZ University and you have suspicions about whether or not she was in an NPC group there, you could always call that university's Greek Life/Panhellenic office - they may be able to assist you.

[honeychile]

Maybe it would be wise for College Panhellenic Councils to check out EVERY transfer student prior to Recruitment. I don't know how many that would entail on most campuses, but it can't be more than a fourth of those registering - and I for one would like to be sure that people are who they say they are.

It could be just one more step, as registrations come in. Transfer students put in one pile, and alumnae or whomever could spend the time checking out their status. They could then check them off and put them back in with the rest of the applications.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe it would be wise for College Panhellenic Councils to check out EVERY transfer student prior to Recruitment. I don't know how many that would entail on most campuses, but it can't be more than a fourth of those registering - and I for one would like to be sure that people are who they say they are.

It could be just one more step, as registrations come in. Transfer students put in one pile, and alumnae or whomever could spend the time checking out their status. They could then check them off and put them back in with the rest of the applications.

You know, to this day I suspect that one of my close friends from freshman year (who initiated my chapter Spring semester, then ended up transfering to a school closer to her home in the Fall) tried to go through rush at her new university.

We stayed in touch over the summer (were supposed to be roommates when she came back in the Fall), and then she told me that she wasn't coming back to school in the Fall. She mentioned to me that the university she was transfering to had a chapter, but she didn't feel like she fit in with the girls there. I think she was trying to hint that she was going to rush again, and I casually tried to make the point that she could always choose to remain alumnae and not affiliate with the undergraduate chapter at her new school. We lost touch shortly after that, and I wonder whether she tried to "sneak" through rush to this day.

In retrospect, I should have contacted the chapter at her new school to give them the opportunity to welcome her to campus ...even if she decided not to affiliate, at least the word would have been out and she would have been busted if she tried to go through rush. (But this all happened the summer between my freshman and sophomore year, so I didn't know how to handle it at the time.)

If any of you were at Towson State University in 1993 and encoutered a PNM who transferred from Michigan State University, PM me and I'll tell you her name. It still bugs me to this day that I never followed up on it.

[texas*princess]

I think what that girl did was very dishonest ... not just to the old group but to new group as well. I'd want her terminated if I was part of the XYP chapter.. but that's just me

[LPIDelta]

I don't know if its my orgs form or a schools form but I remember seeing a statement on a recruitment registration form that says something like... "I affirm that I am not now, nor have I ever been, an initiated member of a National Panhellenic Conference sorority" and they had to intial the statement. And then it said something about "If you have ever accepted an invitiation to join an NPC sorority, please list the sorority here." It had some other things too, about financial responsibility etc. but the point is NPC recruitments should include a form which asks these questions. Sure people can lie still, but if they are caught, they can't say they didn't know the rules.

No there is no NPC database and no people don't check--back in the day you used to be able to trust people and take them at their word. I guess not so anymore. Suffice it to say, when people are found out, they usually lose membership in BOTH organizations.

[TSteven]

I don't know if it would be considered a privacy issue, or some so called great burden to do so, but would it be possible for the NPC to unanimously agree to request all colleges to include the girl's affiliation when it forwards her transcripts to the new schools?

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by TSteven

I don't know if it would be considered a privacy issue, or some so called great burden to do so, but would it be possible for the NPC to unanimously agree to request all colleges to include the girl's affiliation when it forwards her transcripts to the new schools?

Privacy issue? No.
Burden that universities wouldn't care to deal with? Yes.

A better idea would to actually have that so-called database that we like to joke about.

[puddintane]

Originally Posted by honeychile

Maybe it would be wise for College Panhellenic Councils to check out EVERY transfer student prior to Recruitment. I don't know how many that would entail on most campuses, but it can't be more than a fourth of those registering - and I for one would like to be sure that people are who they say they are.

It could be just one more step, as registrations come in. Transfer students put in one pile, and alumnae or whomever could spend the time checking out their status. They could then check them off and put them back in with the rest of the applications.

I'm the Greek Advisor at my University and we had this happen about eight years ago. When the girl that had initiated two sororities had asked her about it, she did confess, and voluntarily gave up her membership in her new sorority. We never really got to find out what would have happened because it didn't get that far.

After that happened, word got around, and the women were suggesting what you had in your post.

The issue is, anything that is in a student file is subject to privacy issues, so even as the Greek Advisor, and as a member of an NPC Sorority, I can't disclose to students anything that is in their file to Greek Organizations.

We had to do the same thing with GPA. Years ago, we used to give the Greek Organizations a list of grades of grades at the end of every term, we can't do that anymore. If the sorority has a GPA minimum, all we can verify is that they meet their minimum, but can't say an individual student has a 3.4 intead of the 4.0 they put on their application, when their minimum might be a 3.0. I've seen it, and I can't say anything about it. I can, however, say something to the student, but I can't force them to be truthful.

Just keep in mind, that it's not limited to transfer students. Many freshman have flunked out of another college and start again at another school as a "freshman". If they are not receiving financial aid, there is no way to catch it.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by puddintane

I'm the Greek Advisor at my University and we had this happen about eight years ago. When the girl that had initiated two sororities had asked her about it, she did confess, and voluntarily gave up her membership in her new sorority. We never really got to find out what would have happened because it didn't get that far.

After that happened, word got around, and the women were suggesting what you had in your post.

The issue is, anything that is in a student file is subject to privacy issues, so even as the Greek Advisor, and as a member of an NPC Sorority, I can't disclose to students anything that is in their file to Greek Organizations.

We had to do the same thing with GPA. Years ago, we used to give the Greek Organizations a list of grades of grades at the end of every term, we can't do that anymore. If the sorority has a GPA minimum, all we can verify is that they meet their minimum, but can't say an individual student has a 3.4 intead of the 4.0 they put on their application, when their minimum might be a 3.0. I've seen it, and I can't say anything about it. I can, however, say something to the student, but I can't force them to be truthful.

Just keep in mind, that it's not limited to transfer students. Many freshman have flunked out of another college and start again at another school as a "freshman". If they are not receiving financial aid, there is no way to catch it.

Would you be permitted to answer a question like "was so and so ever a member of an NPC group?" Simply a yes or no, not even which one?

Can students sign a waiver for certain items? (I believe this must happen at some colleges because they generate GPAs and comparative lists for NPC groups which are availabe on the Greek Life page.)

[gphiangel624]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Would you be permitted to answer a question like "was so and so ever a member of an NPC group?" Simply a yes or no, not even which one?

Can students sign a waiver for certain items? (I believe this must happen at some colleges because they generate GPAs and comparative lists for NPC groups which are availabe on the Greek Life page.)

We went around and around with this issue a long time ago. Our recruitment registration forms have a statement, evaluated by our campus Registrar (who is also our FERPA Compliance officer), that basically states the PNM verifies the information is true and correct, and that she authorizes release of the information included on her registration form to the Student Life office, Panhellenic, and the chapters that belong to it. My office (Student Life) then reviews GPAs, past pledging/initiation data we have on file, and verifies if it's true or not. The PNMs are made aware of this entire process from the start, so we rarely get misinformation from them.

Regarding puddintane's concern about the grade report, I'm willing to share how we work our grade report process if you want to PM me. Again, it's approved by our campus Registrar and FERPA compliance officer as well.

[jwsteele]

I'm not in a sorority so if what I'm about to say makes no sense or is irrelevant please correct me. Fraternity rush is quite different obviously. But to me, as an outsider, it seems like:

a) This isn't really a widespread problem, I can't imagine a chapter would make several members check up on all the random transfer PNMs (particularly at a large school) when there is so much else to do at rush for the almost non-existant chance that somebody is trying to pull this off.

b) I would think that the girls currently rushing would be able to catch it...I know that at my campus, which is a competitive campus not in the South, girls pretty much stalk the PNMs going through rush as soon as they get their applications doing everything from reading their Facebook walls and profiles to see if there are "problems" (ie slutty comments or drug references) and doing "pre-rankings" based on academics, involvement, talents, etc. If a girl is transfering they try to find out how she carried herself at that former school. (They shouldn't have really told me all that to be sure but it gets out). I would think that if a girl was initiated before at another school a simple Facebook search or word-of-mouth would reveal it, but then again maybe I'm wrong.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by jwsteele

I'm not in a sorority so if what I'm about to say makes no sense or is irrelevant please correct me. Fraternity rush is quite different obviously. But to me, as an outsider, it seems like:

a) This isn't really a widespread problem, I can't imagine a chapter would make several members check up on all the random transfer PNMs (particularly at a large school) when there is so much else to do at rush for the almost non-existant chance that somebody is trying to pull this off.

b) I would think that the girls currently rushing would be able to catch it...I know that at my campus, which is a competitive campus not in the South, girls pretty much stalk the PNMs going through rush as soon as they get their applications doing everything from reading their Facebook walls and profiles to see if there are "problems" (ie slutty comments or drug references) and doing "pre-rankings" based on academics, involvement, talents, etc. If a girl is transfering they try to find out how she carried herself at that former school. (They shouldn't have really told me all that to be sure but it gets out). I would think that if a girl was initiated before at another school a simple Facebook search or word-of-mouth would reveal it, but then again maybe I'm wrong.

Well, if they already do the stuff listed in part B, they already do check out the transfer students, so it might not be that much more time consuming to do it formally.

Just out of curiosity, if a girl were shut down her profile completely, would all her previous tags, comments, and wall posts also disappear immediately or would she have to go through one by one?

(The amount of background screening that groups try to do at some of the really big rushes is really pretty amazing to me. Especially with their network of alums, for some groups, I think, in the south especially, there are rarely any unknowns on the final bid list. )

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by gphiangel624

We went around and around with this issue a long time ago. Our recruitment registration forms have a statement, evaluated by our campus Registrar (who is also our FERPA Compliance officer), that basically states the PNM verifies the information is true and correct, and that she authorizes release of the information included on her registration form to the Student Life office, Panhellenic, and the chapters that belong to it. My office (Student Life) then reviews GPAs, past pledging/initiation data we have on file, and verifies if it's true or not. The PNMs are made aware of this entire process from the start, so we rarely get misinformation from them.

Regarding puddintane's concern about the grade report, I'm willing to share how we work our grade report process if you want to PM me. Again, it's approved by our campus Registrar and FERPA compliance officer as well.

So in your case, if the campus Panhellenic wanted too, you might be able to add to the recruitment release a release for transfer students and information about membership as well?

It's interesting how much it varies from campus to campus. At the school that won't release any information from the student file, I guess the only way a future employer can verify information about an applicant is by getting a transcript sent. (I doubt many employers verify extracurriculars anyway, but I never really thought about how people could completely make up everything on the first resume other than the GPA, but I guess at that campus, they could. )

[puddintane]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Would you be permitted to answer a question like "was so and so ever a member of an NPC group?" Simply a yes or no, not even which one?

Can students sign a waiver for certain items? (I believe this must happen at some colleges because they generate GPAs and comparative lists for NPC groups which are availabe on the Greek Life page.)

It's done differently on many campuses. Each University has to decide for itself, how much information it is willing to disclose to any student organization, regarding a student's file, and has to weigh that with any potential liability issues that may pop up.

Our school has adopted disclosing information on a "need-to-know" basis, but that doesn't necessarily include everything that a student is willing to sign away.

Grades, there is a reason why a minimum GPA must be achieved. This benefits the college as well as the Greek Organization. Joining a Greek Organization involves a significant amount of a student's time, and we want to make sure that only those that can manage their time well, can take on additional responsibilities. School comes first, if you can't manage school, you can't join certain groups.

Our college, has a minimum GPA for all organizations. The organization is able to set it for themselves and set the bar higher (and we will help them in that verification process), but with us, if you are on academic probabation, you must terminate your membership, Greek or not.

The only exceptions are honor societies and scholarships, where a full transcript is needed in order to make award determinations.

Now, back to your question regarding someone being initiated into a sorority twice, and if it was in their file, could I say anything if asked.

If the situation at our school 8 years ago, repeated itself today, the answer would be no. The reason is, it doesn't fall into a "need-to-know" basis. It only benefits the Greek Organization...the school doesn't care one way or the other. Not disclosing it, doesn't raise any liability issues....disclosing it, if the student does not wish to disclose ALL of their previous organizations on their personal file, can raise a huge liability issue for the college.

I'm in no way saying that "this is the law"...it's not. This is just the way our University has chosen to handle student information.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by puddintane

Now, back to your question regarding someone being initiated into a sorority twice, and if it was in their file, could I say anything if asked.

If the situation at our school 8 years ago, repeated itself today, the answer would be no. The reason is, it doesn't fall into a "need-to-know" basis. It only benefits the Greek Organization...the school doesn't care one way or the other. Not disclosing it, doesn't raise any liability issues....disclosing it, if the student does not wish to disclose ALL of their previous organizations on their personal file, can raise a huge liability issue for the college.

I'm in no way saying that "this is the law"...it's not. This is just the way our University has chosen to handle student information.

Hum, I think the institution is mistaken in it's impression that the situation only benefits the Greek Organization. I tend to think that your institution has to believe that the overall effect of Greek Life on the university is beneficial or you would terminate your relationships with the GLOS. A healthy balance of the university helping the GLOs and the GLOs helping the institution would be good overall. If the university takes a only "what's in it for us" attitude, I think you'll have more problems between groups and that will spill over into campus life at large.

I can see the liability point on some level, but after a person appears listed as a member in a yearbook, it's hard to make a claim about privacy. There would be ways around the idea that you got the info. only from the confidential student file.