Sweethearts wearing letters?

[Ohsass]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Wow, this surprises me on how strict a lot of people are on this. Our sweetheart this year was given a sweatshirt with stitched letters and "Sweetheart 2007" underneath it. He wears it, and it's cute. We love him!

As far as lavaliering goes..I was VERY surprised to see ThetaChiGuy being so upset about someone wearing his letters, since the QXs on our campus are very liberal with lavaliering here. One of our sisters got lavaliered after dating about five months, and she has letters from them. It's not uncommon.

Ohsass, I don't understand why it's okay for you to have a Lil Sis sweatshirt but not for a lavaliered woman to borrow a letters sweatshirt. Can you reason that out for me?

Fantastic, I see your point. So maybe the best way to explain this is that though I wore the letters, there was no question of my position in the eyes of the fraternity with "Lil Sis" prominently displayed down my sleeve in large letters. Therefore I was not wearing solely the letters without any other distinctions. There was no question of my position in regards to the Fraternity.

Another point that I've seen in this thread that I feel is a good one is that even pledges are not permitted to wear the letters. In my husband's case, their pledge t-shirts said "Delts" and not the letters until after initiation.

More food for thought, what if a girl wore a houses letters but was not lavaliered? What if a non-Greek college student was wearing a houses letters? Where is the line drawn? I think the point is that it is waaaay out of line to try to pass yourself off as a member of a group that you do not belong to nor have earned the right to claim affiliation to.

[Ohsass]

Originally Posted by Ohsass

Fantastic, I see your point. So maybe the best way to explain this is that though I wore the letters, there was no question of my position in the eyes of the fraternity with "Lil Sis" prominently displayed down my sleeve in large letters. Therefore I was not wearing solely the letters without any other distinctions. There was no question of my position in regards to the Fraternity.

Another point that I've seen in this thread that I feel is a good one is that even pledges are not permitted to wear the letters. In my husband's case, their pledge t-shirts said "Delts" and not the letters until after initiation.

More food for thought, what if a girl wore a houses letters but was not lavaliered? What if a non-Greek college student was wearing a houses letters? Where is the line drawn? I think the point is that it is waaaay out of line to try to pass yourself off as a member of a group that you do not belong to nor have earned the right to claim affiliation to.

one more thought here...I was also lavaliered. I wore my necklace almost every day, it was small, not conspicuous and really only meant something to Greeks who understood the significance. The difference here is subtlety and respect.

Though I was a little sister, I also would not attend a joint function with another sorority at Delts out of respect for that sorority. Again, it gave the impression that you were trying to take a place that was not earned.

I was president of the Li'l Sisters and it was a rule I imparted that that was crashing. Though it wasn't a written fraternity rule, it would present an awkward situation for the Delts to explain. i.e.. "Oh, who is she? She's a little sister. Sure you don't mind them being here too?" The only exception was open parties or parties were Lil sisters were expressly invited.

My advisor husband is attending chapter tonight and plans to bring this up to "his boys". He is going to open it for discussion and follow their consensus. I will be sure to post their reply. By the way, I still have my lavalier and will be wearing it to our Founders Day Formal this weekend. Been a VERY long time since I've been invited to a Delt Formal ;-)

[Ohsass]

Originally Posted by fantASTic

Ohsass: That makes sense. But then would it be okay for a lavaliered woman to have "Girlfriend" or something written on the sleeve, or under letters?

I'm not trying to be controversial, just to see exactly what you feel is okay and not okay, so don't think I'm picking a fight!

Originally Posted by Ohsass

one more thought here...I was also lavaliered. I wore my necklace almost every day, it was small, not conspicuous and really only meant something to Greeks who understood the significance. The difference here is subtlety and respect.

Though I was a little sister, I also would not attend a joint function with another sorority at Delts out of respect for that sorority. Again, it gave the impression that you were trying to take a place that was not earned.

I was president of the Li'l Sisters and it was a rule I imparted that that was crashing. Though it wasn't a written fraternity rule, it would present an awkward situation for the Delts to explain. i.e.. "Oh, who is she? She's a little sister. Sure you don't mind them being here too?" The only exception was open parties or parties were Lil sisters were expressly invited.

My advisor husband is attending chapter tonight and plans to bring this up to "his boys". He is going to open it for discussion and follow their consensus. I will be sure to post their reply. By the way, I still have my lavalier and will be wearing it to our Founders Day Formal this weekend. Been a VERY long time since I've been invited to a Delt Formal ;-)

Ok - so Delt Hubby brought up the entire discussion of who can wear letters, aside from the stated policy regarding pledges it was agreed that:

1) event/fundraiser t-shirts - always ok whether greek or non-greek i.e. "DTD Relay for Life"

2) Sweetheart and Lil Sis - ok but with clear prominent designation stating "Sweetheart" or "Lil Sis" (point being whole fraternity voted on their status)

3) lavaliered or pinned - necklace/pin ok, but his letters on official Delt clothing meant for brothers - no way (includes his shirts or buying them herself at a Greek store)

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Ohsass

2) Sweetheart and Lil Sis - ok but with clear prominent designation stating "Sweetheart" or "Lil Sis" (point being whole fraternity voted on their status)

Do you mean biological little sister (such as TKE has badges for mothers and bio sisters)? There's no such thing as Fraternity little sisters any more.

[Ohsass]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Do you mean biological little sister (such as TKE has badges for mothers and bio sisters)? There's no such thing as Fraternity little sisters any more.

Is that so? Hum...truly none system wide or just your fraternity? Regardless, no I did not mean bio sibs. I took notes on what my husband told me so that is what I shared. He may have added Lil Sis for the sake of explaining the differences so I understood. But I guess what I'm seeing throughout this thread is that stead fast rules do not apply everywhere. It is all about what each individual chapter or approves.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Ohsass

Is that so? Hum...truly none system wide or just your fraternity?

None. System-wide. Although that's probably been a changed from when your husband was in school. Little sister groups used to be popular before they were banned. (And yes, I realize some school still have them, but they're not technically allowed anywhere.)

Oh, and I'm in a sorority.

[Ohsass]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

None. System-wide. Although that's probably been a changed from when your husband was in school. Little sister groups used to be popular before they were banned. (And yes, I realize some school still have them, but they're not technically allowed anywhere.)

Oh, and I'm in a sorority.

Well, I'll be darned! That's kind of a shame because yes, we did party with the brothers but we supported them in a lot of philanthropic stuff. I will have to research more on why they were banned. Must be the history major in me I appreciate the info and thank you for the correction.

[Ohsass]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

None. System-wide. Although that's probably been a changed from when your husband was in school. Little sister groups used to be popular before they were banned. (And yes, I realize some school still have them, but they're not technically allowed anywhere.)

Oh, and I'm in a sorority.

For anyone interested in more info, Greekchat has a relatively recent thread (ie - current decade ;-) I found it when I googled "Banning Little Sisters in fraternities". The Greekchat thread was "Little Sisters/Sweathearts". Use Greekchat search with that phrase.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

None. System-wide. Although that's probably been a changed from when your husband was in school. Little sister groups used to be popular before they were banned. (And yes, I realize some school still have them, but they're not technically allowed anywhere.)

AlphaFrog is correct.

NIC Resolution Regarding Little Sister Groups

WHEREAS, the North-American Interfraternity Conference believes sororities and women's fraternities offer excellent opportunities for women to share a fraternal experience; and

WHEREAS, auxiliary women's groups organized by menâs fraternity chapters, commonly referred to as "little sisters" are inconsistent with the concept and philosophy of separate and equal women's fraternities; and

WHEREAS, the National Interfraternity Conference believes that these groups inhibit the accomplishment of chapter goals by:

DIVERTING resources of time, efforts, and money, which are needed for chapter operations and programming;

DISTRACTING chapter members in the performance of essential duties (e.g., membership recruitment and membership education).

INVITING disharmony within the chapter by usurping the roles and responsibilities of initiated members;

WEAKENING the bonds of brotherhood by adversely affecting interpersonal relationships within the chapter; and

WHEREAS, the Fraternity Executives Association and several member fraternities have taken a position against these auxiliary groups,

THEREFORE, BE IT RESOLVED that the National Interfraternity Conference and the presidents of its member fraternities believe that "little sister" groups are not desirable adjuncts to the collegiate chapters of men's fraternities and urges and recommends that member fraternities work with their chapters to eliminate these programs at the earliest possible time.

Adopted by vote of the 1987 House of Delegates

And later, this resolution added to the NIC by-laws.

By-Laws of the North-American Interfraternity Conference
(Revised April 26, 2004)

Section 2. Standards.

2. Member organization policies will include:

Fraternity-chapter women's auxiliary groups (i.e. "little sisters") are not allowed (implemented no later than September 1, 2004)