step/stomp and minority greeks not from NPHC

[Little32]

There are theories that suggest that black organizations, culture, etc...become a touchstone for other ethnic groups who wish to define themselves against or outside mainstream/majority institutions, because of the many ways that black people have successfully accomplished this end over the centuries. So that even if you organization has no official relationship with any BGLO, our organizations in many ways are models (in terms of longevity and impact) of how to do things differently, which perhaps your organization found useful.

[L.O.C.K.]

Aiya, Rashid! You're making me sit down to write this long reply!!! Bear with me all, this is going to be a bit long.

Let me just say that Little32's point about BGLO's being the staple for creating a "counter culture" in opposition to WGLO's is very, very solid point.

Asian Greeks are old (first org was 1916 but it died out). However, we don't have the group history of the D9. Essentially, Because you have so many organizations that are so old, a D9 culture has been created and developed over time to become what it is today. Things weren't like they are now back in the day.

As for Asian Greeks not knowing about stepping yet doing it anyways, YES it happens. Does it piss me off? YES. But the question to ask is WHY. Why are people doing these things? I really think it comes down to existing in a culture that is in opposition to WGLOs. So many Asian Greeks tell their members during rush or preach during pledging that we are not just drinking clubs. Many orgs emphasize their cultural ties and how they stand apart.

Yet, creating something totally different is very difficult. I mean, by just creating a fraternity or sorority you are copying from the Phi Beta Kappa model that every Greek org has copied.

The reality is that Asian Greeks have hand signs, calls, wear line jackets, hell even do line-ups like Black Greeks. I've gone over this a lot in my mind to think about what it all means - is this good or bad?

In some ways, it makes me very happy to see Asians branching out and looking at other cultures. At the same time, it bothers me because it is done without understanding what you are modifying.

Now, how do we solve all of this?

First off, Asian Greek culture needs to be solidified. I am sure if you asked members of Asian Greeks about other large Asian Greek orgs, their founding, etc. most members would have no clue at all. So, we're not even aware of our own history as Asian Greeks. How can we hope to learn the history of others without knowing our own organizational histories?

Now, most likely why there has been so little education on this is because a) our orgs are relatively newer and the older orgs are very small mostly b) because none of this has been written down recorded and c) because there is no unifying body for Asian Greeks (like the D9 for Black Greeks).

The older we get, the *hopefully* better the situation will become.

As for our age, all we can do is keep truckin.

As for none of it being written down, it's being done. I am in the process of writing my senior thesis on Asian American Fraternities & Sororities and their impact on APIA identity, etc. I created a survey that I sent to every Asian American Greek org I could find and received over 1,100 responses. I then did follow up questionaires with those who left their emails and received 70 good respones. Furthermore, I've been in contact with Walter Kimbrough (he wrote Black Greek 101) and Lawrence Ross (The Divine Nine) and I've been updating them on my work as well as supplying them with some more information about Asian American Greeks. Hopefully if they write more books they will have more to discuss on Asian American Greeks.

As for unity...we're trying right now. Back in 2004, the APIA Greek Alliance (AGA) was created to basically get Asian American Greeks to Get Out the Vote for the 2004 elections. Essentially, it showed how our orgs could work together for the APIA community. After that, it was clear that it needed to continue and be more refined. Since then, the National APIA Panhellenic Association (NAPA) has been created to provide a unifying voice for Asian American Greeks and help provide some stability to a Greek community of over 60 organizations.

Right now NAPA consists of:
alpha Kappa Delta Phi Sorority - founded 1990 at UC Berekely - approx. 43 chapters
Alpha Phi Gamma Sorority - founded 1994 at Cal Poly Pomona - 9 chapters
Delta Kappa Delta Sorority - founded 1999 at Texas A&M - 7 chapters
Delta Phi Lambda Sorority - founded 1998 at University of Georgia - 10 chapters
Kappa Phi Lambda Sorority - founded 1995 at Binghamton University - approx. 25-26 chapters
Pi Alpha Phi Fraternity - founded roughly 1926 at UC Berkeley - approx. 13 chapters
Pi Delta Psi Fraternity - founded 1994 at Binghamton University - 21 chapters
Sigma Beta Rho Fraternity- founded 1996 at University of Pennsylvania - approx. 37 chapters
Sigma Psi Zeta Sorority - foudned 1994 at University at Albany - 21 chapters

Other organizations (such as LPhiE, DPhiO, etc) were invited to join but declined/rejected. So, we have 9 organizations (not divine by any means unfortunately...but give us time!!! )

The reality is even the larger organizations are facing many issues with infrastructure and organization. Things such as paid National staff (a staple of D9 and NPC/NIC orgs) are a far off dream right now. Even developing stable Alumni structures are a problem as well.

I know my org is trying to establish Alumni Chapters based on geographical locations, but it is very very difficult to get Alumni involved. Something the D9have done VERY well is have good Alumni support/involvement, which is something that is key to sustainability of an organization.

If you would like to get involved, I am sure your Nationals would love someone with your enthusiasm and desire to make things right. However, before we teach about the history of stepping, we need to teach our own history first and develop our own Asian American Greek Culture.

Believe me, I want to teach about D9 orgs too, but it is going to take time. I dream of the day when I am wearing letters at the age of 80 and I walk down the street and people go "omg!! he's PDPsi!!" just like people do about people who walk down the street wearing Alpha Phi Alpha letters. But the only way that is going to happen is with hard work and dedication.


Hope this helps! Now time to go work on this damn thesis!!! @#!$%%$@%!@#!!!

Pz
Nate

[Little32]

^^This is good stuff.

And of course taking the model and adapting to meet your particular needs is always the challenge. I am a literary and cultural scholar, so I see evidence of this throughout the field.

For instance African American Studies programs/departments were models for the formation of other Ethnic Studies programs/departments; however, there are ways that what works in African American Studies does not and can not address the needs of other Ethnic Groups, so those programs have evolved to better suit their constituencies.

But that process takes a lot of time. The fact that these conversations are being had means that you are moving in the right direction. And, as L.O.C.K. pointed out, BGLOs did not emerge fully grown in the years they were founded. Our orgs have decades that have gone into this process of developing a unique culture--and they are continuing to evolve even now.

[nwu43]

Oy, looks like this thread is starting branch out into two topics already haha

I'm gonna have split this post.

First, good job Nate in your efforts to bring us together! I'm a bit disappointed/puzzled as to why our nationals rejected or declined to be a part of NAPA. Unfortunately when it comes to the politics of our organization, I really have no idea what's going on. I guess part of the problem are Asians like me who cannot stand all this business and just choose to stay out of it . I agree with your views but I really do not know what I can do. Mostly, I'm concerned with fulfilling my role as step-master and trying to keep the brotherhood in my chapter tight. My reasons for wanting to educate other chapters about step are as much because I don't want them to ruin our reputation (and that I hate it when people steal or copy in general) as because I don't like the idea of them stepping without knowing anything about it. Fortunately, most bros in my chapter are more ambitious than me . I'll ask the president and midwest lieutenant governor about this issue, maybe get them to register for Greekchat (I'm starting to like this place more and more), though I really don't know how much we can do, as lambdas in the Midwest have very little power in influencing national decisions.

Also, I crossed the same time as you. We're syands
(hooters #43, spr2k4, Northwestern Univ)

------------

Anyways, back to step again, I was wondering if you guys could help me out with specifics i.e., what are signature or unique styles that different Orgs are known for and what kind of things we should avoid (partly because I want to make something new right now, and partly because it's also very interesting )
----
What I know so far (and correct me if I'm wrong!):

APhiA - A-train. Anything with hats?

KAPsi - Canes

Phi Beta Sigma - I'm not sure. I saw two step shows where one guy does a frontal handspring and ends up on top of another guy who is standing? Is that a unique move?

Iota Phi Theta - Some told me something about centaur walk? Though I'm not sure what it is.

Omega Psi Phi- the omega hop

Also, I think I saw a step where steppers would split into pairs, and within each pair each individual's leg was tied to another's leg so they had to step in unison with each other. It was quite amazing! Does anyone know which Greek org does that?
---
I've never seen step from Latino fraternities, so I have no idea what they do

Finally, there are moves or props that I used to think were universal but now I'm not sure. Just to be on the safe side, are the following unique to any Greek organization or are they incorporated into step by everyone?:

-Using chairs as props?

-A move where steppers would hop on one foot, kick with the other, and flail their arms wildly while making the sound "Ah, Ah, Ah"

-The move where steppers would make a "brushing sound" with their teeth while making movements that look like they're brushing off their uniforms? I used to think it was a universal thing (and a lot of our West Coast chapters incorporate that into their step), but so far I've only seen Alphas do it.

Again THANKS

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by nwu43

Oy, looks like this thread is starting branch out into two topics already haha

I'm gonna have split this post.

First, good job Nate in your efforts to bring us together! I'm a bit disappointed/puzzled as to why our nationals rejected or declined to be a part of NAPA. Unfortunately when it comes to the politics of our organization, I really have no idea what's going on. I guess part of the problem are Asians like me who cannot stand all this business and just choose to stay out of it . I agree with your views but I really do not know what I can do. Mostly, I'm concerned with fulfilling my role as step-master and trying to keep the brotherhood in my chapter tight. My reasons for wanting to educate other chapters about step are as much because I don't want them to ruin our reputation (and that I hate it when people steal or copy in general) as because I don't like the idea of them stepping without knowing anything about it. Fortunately, most bros in my chapter are more ambitious than me . I'll ask the president and midwest lieutenant governor about this issue, maybe get them to register for Greekchat (I'm starting to like this place more and more), though I really don't know how much we can do, as lambdas in the Midwest have very little power in influencing national decisions.

Also, I crossed the same time as you. We're syands
(hooters #43, spr2k4, Northwestern Univ)

------------

Anyways, back to step again, I was wondering if you guys could help me out with specifics i.e., what are signature or unique styles that different Orgs are known for and what kind of things we should avoid (partly because I want to make something new right now, and partly because it's also very interesting )
----
What I know so far (and correct me if I'm wrong!):

APhiA - A-train. Anything with hats?

KAPsi - Canes

Phi Beta Sigma - I'm not sure. I saw two step shows where one guy does a frontal handspring and ends up on top of another guy who is standing? Is that a unique move?

Iota Phi Theta - Some told me something about centaur walk? Though I'm not sure what it is.

Omega Psi Phi- the omega hop

Also, I think I saw a step where steppers would split into pairs, and within each pair each individual's leg was tied to another's leg so they had to step in unison with each other. It was quite amazing! Does anyone know which Greek org does that?
---
I've never seen step from Latino fraternities, so I have no idea what they do

Finally, there are moves or props that I used to think were universal but now I'm not sure. Just to be on the safe side, are the following unique to any Greek organization or are they incorporated into step by everyone?:

-Using chairs as props?

-A move where steppers would hop on one foot, kick with the other, and flail their arms wildly while making the sound "Ah, Ah, Ah"

-The move where steppers would make a "brushing sound" with their teeth while making movements that look like they're brushing off their uniforms? I used to think it was a universal thing (and a lot of our West Coast chapters incorporate that into their step), but so far I've only seen Alphas do it.

Again THANKS

It seems you know something about everyone (the fraternities at least). To answer some of your questions, yes, the Iotas do the "Centaur Walk" but I'm almost certain no one else will come up with it since it's rather unique. I can't really explain what it looks like so you'll have to see an Iota stepshow. The Sigmas (Phi Beta Sigma) are a bit more adventurous/daring IMO than the other groups...always pulling stunts that others might not attempt in a show, so yes, you might definitely catch them flipping over something/someone or just doing things that are sure to impress the audience (but what they do exactly can depend on the chapter since they like to add new moves to their signature steps). In other words, they like to put on a show. My sorority, Sigma Gamma Rho, has a step where we tie our legs together with another member and step but I have not seen all chapters do this.

Overall, one thing you should know is that there are moves that all of the D9 do and these moves are the foundation of stepping so you won't be able to help but to copy. All of the orgs outside of the D9 are copying to an extent because the foundation of stepping includes the same moves or variations of the same moves that originated with the D9 (although influenced by many things). There are also moves that all the D9 fraternities do and songs that all the D9 sororities sing. Some of these things come from the pledge process like standing with the grit face. I saw a non Greek step team (all boys) do this and I just shook my head because they were kids and they don't pledge or know the history so they don't know what the grit face is all about. Anyway, signature steps or moves are those that all chapters of a D9 org perform although there may be small variations from chapter to chapter. Some of these traditional or signature steps/moves are accompanied by chants and songs. As for the D9 sorority styles, I'm sure you won't come up with these since sorority steps are more feminine.

Bottom Line: Any step that a D9 org is doing which is not one of the foundational moves in stepping (and you would have to know what the basic moves are) is either a signature step for the entire org or a move that a specific chapter created and yes, to copy the steps/moves would be frowned upon. I suggest that you learn the foundational moves and create your own from there. It's also probably not a good idea to watch too many D9 stepshows while you're doing this so that your creativity can be fresh and new.

It would help if you had chants or songs. Does your org have chants and/or songs? What is your mascot? The D9 incorporates their mascots, symbols, sayings (see my signature below), chants, songs, history, colors, etc. into their routines. You'll need to identify these things in your own org if you're going to come up with your own style and signature steps.

[nwu43]

"My sorority, Sigma Gamma Rho, has a step where we tie our legs together with another member and step but I have not seen all chapters do this."

You know what's odd? I could've sworn that the group I saw doing that stunt had the letters Sigma and Rho in it. I thought it was Sigma Gamma Rho, but they were guys! In my previous post I was going to say that it was Sigma Gamma Rho that made up that stunt, but then I saw your signature and remembered that Sigma Gamma Rho was a sorority, so I thought I probably made a mistake and just forgot what the letters to that group was. But then you said your sorority did this stunt as well! Now I'm so confused. I'm assuming either it's a coincidence and that group that I saw was still a different organization or they were in some way affiliated with your sorority?

"It's also probably not a good idea to watch too many D9 stepshows while you're doing this so that your creativity can be fresh and new."

You're right. In past actually, when I watched the most was the period when I had realized that some of our old moves we took from Cali chapters were *not* ours, and so I was trying to find out how many and which ones. I gave up eventually because it was too time consuming to watch too many and just assumed every step that wasn't ours was potentially copied (which is why we don't even use material from our neighboring chapters anymore). Of course I still like to go to step-shows when they are around on campus because it is fun to watch .

[L.O.C.K.]

hey nwu43,
I'm glad to hear you're trying to do things the right way. Good luck with it!

Also, shoot me a PM and maybe we can chat on AIM about this.

Pz
Nate

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by nwu43

"My sorority, Sigma Gamma Rho, has a step where we tie our legs together with another member and step but I have not seen all chapters do this."

You know what's odd? I could've sworn that the group I saw doing that stunt had the letters Sigma and Rho in it. I thought it was Sigma Gamma Rho, but they were guys! In my previous post I was going to say that it was Sigma Gamma Rho that made up that stunt, but then I saw your signature and remembered that Sigma Gamma Rho was a sorority, so I thought I probably made a mistake and just forgot what the letters to that group was. But then you said your sorority did this stunt as well! Now I'm so confused. I'm assuming either it's a coincidence and that group that I saw was still a different organization or they were in some way affiliated with your sorority?

"It's also probably not a good idea to watch too many D9 stepshows while you're doing this so that your creativity can be fresh and new."

You're right. In past actually, when I watched the most was the period when I had realized that some of our old moves we took from Cali chapters were *not* ours, and so I was trying to find out how many and which ones. I gave up eventually because it was too time consuming to watch too many and just assumed every step that wasn't ours was potentially copied (which is why we don't even use material from our neighboring chapters anymore). Of course I still like to go to step-shows when they are around on campus because it is fun to watch .

You should know that moves/steps that you see the D9 performing are not copied from groups outside of the D9 so you can bet that if you see a group outside of the D9 performing the same step that a D9 group also performed, that group either copied or is/was affiliated with the D9 group in some way.

I'm almost certain that who you saw performing this step was the Sigma Rhomeos "Fraternal Order of Classy Gentlemen (FOCG)." You will see them wearing the greek letter for Sigma and an "R" for Rhomeo. The Sigma Rhomeos developed from an auxillary group (Sigma Gamma Rhomeos) we had many years ago. It was a group of men (mostly boyfriends and husbands) who supported and assisted Sigma Gamma Rho in our daily operations and community service. In 1990 the D9 decided to ban all auxillary groups like this so our affiliation with this group ended. Since then the group has gone on to become their own non-greek fraternity and they continue to bring in new members although their chapters are mostly in Texas with some in Florida and other places. Since they were once affiliated with us, their colors are the same as ours, they probably do some of the same steps, and they also step with canes (they got this from us and we got it from the Kappas). Because of the cane stepping there has been some animosity between the Kappas and Sigma Rhomeo on campuses where both exist. I have met some Sigma Rhomeos and they usually refer to us as their sisters although we have no affiliation with them anymore and we have no official brother organization. For the most part, many of our members still consider them family and we have no problem with them. Here is a link to one website of theirs: http://www.ou.edu/student/romeos/.

[PhiRhoSister]

I just wanted to say this is one of the most educational threads on GC!

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by nwu43

Oy, looks like this thread is starting branch out into two topics already haha

I'm gonna have split this post.

First, good job Nate in your efforts to bring us together! I'm a bit disappointed/puzzled as to why our nationals rejected or declined to be a part of NAPA. Unfortunately when it comes to the politics of our organization, I really have no idea what's going on. I guess part of the problem are Asians like me who cannot stand all this business and just choose to stay out of it . I agree with your views but I really do not know what I can do. Mostly, I'm concerned with fulfilling my role as step-master and trying to keep the brotherhood in my chapter tight. My reasons for wanting to educate other chapters about step are as much because I don't want them to ruin our reputation (and that I hate it when people steal or copy in general) as because I don't like the idea of them stepping without knowing anything about it. Fortunately, most bros in my chapter are more ambitious than me . I'll ask the president and midwest lieutenant governor about this issue, maybe get them to register for Greekchat (I'm starting to like this place more and more), though I really don't know how much we can do, as lambdas in the Midwest have very little power in influencing national decisions.

Also, I crossed the same time as you. We're syands
(hooters #43, spr2k4, Northwestern Univ)

------------

Anyways, back to step again, I was wondering if you guys could help me out with specifics i.e., what are signature or unique styles that different Orgs are known for and what kind of things we should avoid (partly because I want to make something new right now, and partly because it's also very interesting )
----
What I know so far (and correct me if I'm wrong!):

APhiA - A-train. Anything with hats?

KAPsi - Canes

Phi Beta Sigma - I'm not sure. I saw two step shows where one guy does a frontal handspring and ends up on top of another guy who is standing? Is that a unique move?

Iota Phi Theta - Some told me something about centaur walk? Though I'm not sure what it is.

Omega Psi Phi- the omega hop

Also, I think I saw a step where steppers would split into pairs, and within each pair each individual's leg was tied to another's leg so they had to step in unison with each other. It was quite amazing! Does anyone know which Greek org does that?
---
I've never seen step from Latino fraternities, so I have no idea what they do

Finally, there are moves or props that I used to think were universal but now I'm not sure. Just to be on the safe side, are the following unique to any Greek organization or are they incorporated into step by everyone?:

-Using chairs as props?

-A move where steppers would hop on one foot, kick with the other, and flail their arms wildly while making the sound "Ah, Ah, Ah"

-The move where steppers would make a "brushing sound" with their teeth while making movements that look like they're brushing off their uniforms? I used to think it was a universal thing (and a lot of our West Coast chapters incorporate that into their step), but so far I've only seen Alphas do it.

Again THANKS

A good movie for you to watch on the topic of creating a new style for stepping is the movie "Stomp the Yard." While I didn't much care for the movie because not everything was completely accurate and because it didn't give a good look into all the traditions of the D9 (including the monumental amount of service we do/have done), it is a good example of how non D9 greeks can create their own style or signature for stepping. The producers of the movie are Alphas so they were careful to stay away from D9 signature steps in creating the 2 fictional BGLO fraternities. Using the basic/foundational moves of stepping, the choreographers were able to create different steps and incorporate them with hip hop dance and the mascots, symbols, etc. of the fictional fraternities. If you haven't seen it yet, it will be out on DVD in May. I remember earlier that you said your org has a step they do with kendo sticks. Maybe using the kendo sticks in most of your steps, can be your signature. Just a thought.

[nwu43]

"I just wanted to say this is one of the most educational threads on GC! "

I know right? And the minority/cultural/ethnic Greek world is so interesting as well (is there a better term for this? Or which one is the correct one? I hear people use all of these terms interchangeably although they don't quite mean the same thing). I remember my freshman year when my roommate and almost all my friends were white, and they got me to rush lodge and beta theta pi. Honestly I found the mainstream Greek world pretty cool as well, but Lambdas were so much more intriguing mainly because they were so different from what I had expected and pictured frats to be like. I also liked the idea that I had to *earn* my letters through a lot of "hard work", which made the letters more meaningful to me (of course I'm sure mainstream frats in many schools have something like this as well, but at Northwestern you basically got your letters once you got the bid).

"A good movie for you to watch on the topic of creating a new style for stepping is the movie "Stomp the Yard."

I don't know why I haven't yet watched it. I think at first it was because I was afraid it was going to be like a You Got Served movie (and with more dancing than stepping). Some of my friends thought it was so-so, and others told me it was good and to still check it out, but I didn't think much of it and forgot. But since you say it has redeeming qualities, I guess I have no choice now but to check it out . Btw, thanks so much rhoyaltempest and everyone else who were so helpful to me. I don't know why I didn't get into Greekchat earlier.

"I dream of the day when I am wearing letters at the age of 80 and I walk down the street and people go "omg!! he's PDPsi!!" just like people do about people who walk down the street wearing Alpha Phi Alpha letters"

That's partly because we have yet to have people as famous as Martin Luther King. I think the most famous lambda that I know of right now is the Standford lambda who won the show Survivor
My aim is hooterslphie, though I'm trying to stay away from aim as much as I can at the moment because midterms are coming up, and I need to stop being so distracted

[AKA_Monet]

I don't know if this has already been stated but you all should remember your heritage and always respect it. The groups I have seen win step shows competitions, have always incorporated some honoring of their elders.

You want to make your presentation where you can bring your oldest family member to it.

As much as the young people move around and do all kinds of "junie bug flips" (as my Dad would call it), and the old folks would ask why, they are the first ones trying to buy all the stepshow tickets... Because they like reminiscencing (sp.?) about their youth.

[Senusret I]

I don't know if this has been discussed yet..... cuz frankly y'all are too smart for me in this thread, LOL.....

But don't various Asian cultures have some sort of percussive dance?

I know that I've seen my school's Club Filipinion do a dance with two huge poles that people jump in and out of (almost looks like double dutch).....I believe a noise is also made by snapping the poles together. Anyway, that's something you could incorporate if any of your members already know how to do it.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by Little32

There are theories that suggest that black organizations, culture, etc...become a touchstone for other ethnic groups who wish to define themselves against or outside mainstream/majority institutions, because of the many ways that black people have successfully accomplished this end over the centuries. So that even if you organization has no official relationship with any BGLO, our organizations in many ways are models (in terms of longevity and impact) of how to do things differently, which perhaps your organization found useful.

You just became my favorite neo on GreekChat.

[rhoyaltempest]

There is a phenomenal book out there about BGLO's and the D9 called African-American Fraternities and Sororities: The Legacy and The Vision by Tamara L. Brown, Gregory S. Parks, and Clarenda M. Phillips (you can order it from amazon.com). This book is less popular than the Divine Nine book but this book has so much more depth to it because it examines and historically provides insight into the WHY's of BGLO's. It only provides a brief history of each D9 org but it really gives you a history and in depth look into answering the following questions:

1. WHY were BGLO's founded?
2. WHO was the first BGLO?
3. How have the BGLO's helped to change the fabric of America?
4. WHY do BGLO's have hand signs?
5. WHY do BGLO's have calls?
6. WHY do BGLO's pledge?
7. WHY do BGLO's have line numbers and names?
8. WHO are the members of the D9?
9. WHY do BGLO's step and how did it get started?

These questions and many more are answered or examined closely in this book written by D9 college professors and scholars.

I'm a firm believer that you should know WHY you're doing something and the history behind it as opposed to just doing it for the sake of doing it so you can really appreciate the shoulders that you're standing on. This book is a great read for D9 members and non D9 members alike.

Link to book: http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0813...46#reader-link