Effects of the New Release Figures

[KSUViolet06]

The biggeest groups had to make substantial cuts of sometimes HALF or more of the women after first party. That was rough for recruitment in general because alot of women dropped out because they had their hearts set on being invited back there (not knowing the cuts the group had to make). Yes, they had to let go of substantial #'s of legacies too. That was rough too because girls are more likely to drop if they get cut by their legacy house.

Alphagamuga- The smallest group on our campus did not have to release anyone according to the figures. They released a few women anyway though I think.

[carnation]

I swear that when the rest of my daughters rush, we're leaving out the names of all the sororities they're legacies to. We'll make sure the legacy groups get several recs.

If they rush at Birmingham Southern, though, we might have to list the names of the legacy sororities for a laugh. I would really like to see the looks on the faces of the Panhellenic reps when they open the application and see that here's a girl who's a legacy to 4 of the 6 sororities, lol.

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by carnation

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

[Denise_DPhiE]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

^^^^^^
What she said. Amen!!!!!

[alum]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Just tell them that the more popular a group is, the more women they will have to cut - even if they're great women. I would compare it to college admissions. They've all been through that and know to have "safety" schools and not just apply to Harvard. If they did that, they would be sitting around at the end of their senior year with no clue where they're going or having to settle for a school they never thought they would end up at.

I agree with 33girl. All college applicants are told to have reaches, matches and safeties on their college lists. There are college admissions forums in which kids post their stats for their chances at various schools. Colleges have developed set formulae as to how they choose their students. Some schools focus on grades more than SATs. Some weight EC involvement more than other colleges. Of course the legacy/major donor factor comes into play for college admissions as well.

A difference is that adcoms for schools are composed of adults, not fellow students. We don't have alumnae choosing the new sisters, we have the actives themselves. Obviously adults and alums have more life experience than the collegians/actives and would perhaps look beyond a nervous PNM's poise and focus on her resume.

[FSUZeta]

33girl said it best. tell the pnms the facts. after all, that is all you can do.

if pnms then choose to think that they know more about it than you, and they drop all but the "top" groups and then in turn, get dropped by the top groups, you shouldn't feel that you let them down.

i see the new release figures(nfr) as a positive thing. the problem with the new release figures is that it works better in theory. the nrf was instituted to keep pnms in recruitiment and give the smaller chapters a better chance to grow.

the problem is there is a choice. we know that panhellenic is going to make sure that the chapters comply with the required drops. the chapters still get to choose which pnms they invite back, they are just inviting a smaller percentage than the other chapters. the majority of the pnms want them and most of their invitations will be accepted, so the nrf has little effect on the top chapters final results.

where this breaks down is with the pnms. some pnms just can't accept the fact that the top groups did not invite them back and they drop out. had they continued on with the invitations they did receive, they may have found a chapter where they could be happy. perhaps if they were required to stay in recruitment until "x" party or until they did not receive any invitations at all, the nrfs might truly work as was intended.

[UGAalum94]

Are the we just noticing the dropouts more now than we used to? Because the ones who do the big cuts surely would have released before prefs the girls who today get released after first or second round, right? What used to keep the girls from dropping out whenever they got their realistic options in the past? Do the drops look worse because they occur earlier in the process?

It does seem to be helping the smaller chapters, but maybe it's not only in the way people thought it would. In addition to getting girls to look at smaller chapters when the big ones drop them, it also means that a girl who is still around for prefs is pretty serious about accepting a bid from the groups she's got left.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Are the we just noticing the dropouts more now than we used to? Because the ones who do the big cuts surely would have released before prefs the girls who today get released after first or second round, right? What used to keep the girls from dropping out whenever they got their realistic options in the past? Do the drops look worse because they occur earlier in the process?

It does seem to be helping the smaller chapters, but maybe it's not only in the way people thought it would. In addition to getting girls to look at smaller chapters when the big ones drop them, it also means that a girl who is still around for prefs is pretty serious about accepting a bid from the groups she's got left.

Some DIDN'T release before prefs girls they really had no intention of bidding - they were still "padding" their parties, even then. That was part of the problem. It probably does seem worse when you're dropped earlier - "they hardly got to know me! How can they cut me!"

Then again, maybe cutting you AFTER they get to know you is worse, LOL. It all depends how you look at it.

[carnation]

Back in the day, there were few to no release rules and some groups would keep as many girls around as possible for "eye candy", then do massive cuts before prefs--where there were usually required numbers. For instance, some schools required that your pref party numbers be no more than 1 1/2 to 2 times the numbers of bids that could be handed out. This was also aided by the fact that at many schools, quota was determined early on; they might take the number of girls still in after first parties and divide it by the number of sororities. Both of these led to the big groups staying big and the smaller ones staying smaller-or folding.

I think we hear more about the cuts from selective schools like UGa because you have to be so outstanding to get in now. Certainly no freshmen are cut for grades and I have no idea how the heck the sororities are able to manage the giant cuts. Anyway, the women who are rushing have been rejected very little in their lives; they've accomplished so much and when these outstanding women get cut by 75% of the sororities after second parties, many, many drop out. Unless someone personally knows some of the outstanding PNMs who get cut (like, say, the women whom NUBlue&Blue knew last fall) they can not begin to imagine how fabulous these "recruitment dropouts" are.

[alum]

Originally Posted by carnation

I swear that when the rest of my daughters rush, we're leaving out the names of all the sororities they're legacies to. We'll make sure the legacy groups get several recs.

Assuming that you recommend getting recs for ALL sororities on a campus, will you specifically ask the non-legacy rec writer NOT to list the affiliations on the rec form?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

.

Anyway, lots of PNMs come over here for rush advice and I'm trying to think of a way to tell them--especially if there's a good chance they won't make the groups considered A-1 (and I know that ticks off some GCers but many PNMs here go into rush with a list of those) that they should hang onto some of the solid middle-of the road chapters for second parties. After the massive cuts after second parties, they may wish they could still go back to those but too late, they cut them after first because they wanted to go back to the "name" groups. I just can't think of how to phrase it because every rushee in the world starts out recruitment thinking that she'll have her choice of sororities.

I understand completely what you mean. It's tough to give tactful advice and it's hard to get even the nicest 18 year old to take it. I think you are right in what you are trying to direct them toward, but especially since the A1s are such good rushers, the PNMs are going to have a hard time accepting what you are saying until after they get cut.

[carnation]

Oh, I know, alphagamuga. You go to those parties and even if there's no way you're getting in, they'll make you feel like the number one woman on their bid list. Then when the invitations come back...

And a lot of those recruitment brochures don't mention that you might not get your first or even eighth choice. Or last. They say, "as a new member, you will get to do this or that" and it never occurs to PNMs that they might not pledge. And then there are those songs, sung even on the first day: "We want you for the red, yellow and blue" and that kind of thing. Each PNM is sure they're singing to her individually.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by carnation

And a lot of those recruitment brochures don't mention that you might not get your first or even eighth choice. Or last. They say, "as a new member, you will get to do this or that" and it never occurs to PNMs that they might not pledge.

The newest recruitment page at UGA tells women that recommendations are not required for any group* too. It's almost as if PNMs are sabotaged at every turn by the official advice. Sure, it is officially the responsibility of the group to get you one if the group needs it, but I don't think it's a good idea for the girls to count on that on a highly competitive campus.

I think starkly realistic information from all sources would help young women through the process more than the consistently optimistic stuff they get instead.

*Correction added 4/7: This in only in the FAQs section. The actual recruitment guide does in fact do a good job explaining the importance of recs. I want to retract my claims about the fine people in the UGA Greek Life Office.

[honeychile]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

The newest recruitment page at UGA tells women that recommendations are not required for any group, too. It's almost as if PNMs are sabotaged at every turn by the official advice. Sure, it is officially the responsibility of the group to get you one if the group needs it, but I don't think it's a good idea for the girls to count on that on a highly competitive campus.

I think starkly realistic information from all sources would help young women through the process more than the consistently optimistic stuff they get instead.

Agreed - statements such as these don't allow those who don't really know the system even the smallest of chances!

[seraphimsprite]

I'm definitely a fan of the new release figures method. I was an adviser at George Washington University in DC for the last three years and we implemented the release figures method in my first year there. (The campus is about 17% greek with quota generally ranging between 25-30.)

The chapter I advised had very high historical return rates so it was definitely a bit of a shock when they realized they had to release over half the women after the first round. But they didn't have a problem making quota with a great group of girls and the chapters on campus who had traditionally done poorly in recruitment did actually have stronger numbers on bid day, although not up to quota. I understand the frustration of the girls who are heavily cut after the first day but I really do think that's far more fair to them than stringing them along for the week only to cut them before pref.

I think the big issue with the new release figures method is that it really does take a couple of years to work out the kinks - both administratively and with the chapter's recruiting. Most of the complaints tend to be in the first year after implementation, but a lot of that seems to be just because its a different system and we're all a little bit resistant to change.

The legacy issue that carnation mentioned is something I've definitely seen as a problem though. The first year it was pretty well known that one sorority on campus had cut all of the women who were legacies to other chapters after the first round. And this isn't a campus where there really are a large number of legacies like you have at the SEC schools. Of course a large part of the problem is that the computer system told us who was a legacy of any chapter that year and the problem was mostly fixed by changing the program so it only displayed each chapter's own legacies.

And there was one case, in the third year, where a chapter who had always made quota fell short by 4 or 5 women. But I don't see that as a flaw in the system. They were able to pick up the extra women through COB anyway. And if ABC getting five short of quota means that XYZ was five members closer to quota than they usually were, then I don't really see the problem there.