Big TAX problem for House Corps

[EE-BO]

Tom,

Just to clarify- he is talking about something most of us do here. People living in the house get the room for 12 months, but the total cost for the year is spread over 9 months so that everything gets paid up before the guys go home for the summer. It can be very difficult to track down 30-50 rent checks each month during summer break.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Tom,

Just to clarify- he is talking about something most of us do here. People living in the house get the room for 12 months, but the total cost for the year is spread over 9 months so that everything gets paid up before the guys go home for the summer. It can be very difficult to track down 30-50 rent checks each month during summer break.

Excellent post and while we would love to do that, the cost of our new house would really add on costs as we are below house full.

When we get the beds full, I am sure that will change as you and I have discussed this.

Parlor fees do not cover the full costs as it would take away from so many other parts of the budget.

While one would think each school is different, I guess it really isnt in the big picture.

But, as long as Greeks have houses near campus and the school wants to buy them, we are in the squeeze.

[AA1038]

... to the whole zoning issue.

How are other not-for-profit organizations dealt with regarding zoning and property taxes? Are the Salvation Army, YMCA, various social/country clubs, with housing units taxed? What about churches?

Fraternal organizations are generally considered not-for-profit groups, and housing is not generally considered something that is not part of the core business of the group (if you had a bookstore or coffee shop, that would be a taxable enterprise, for example). We church leaders face this all the time, as folks want to take our tax exemptions away, or make it cost-prohibitive to build new churches because of greedy zoning rules.

Just a thought...

Art Hebbeler
Chapter Advisor, Phi-Delta Zeta of Lambda Chi Alpha
AA 1038 (Butler '82 -- Go Dawgs!)

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by AA1038

... to the whole zoning issue.

How are other not-for-profit organizations dealt with regarding zoning and property taxes? Are the Salvation Army, YMCA, various social/country clubs, with housing units taxed? What about churches?

Fraternal organizations are generally considered not-for-profit groups, and housing is not generally considered something that is not part of the core business of the group (if you had a bookstore or coffee shop, that would be a taxable enterprise, for example). We church leaders face this all the time, as folks want to take our tax exemptions away, or make it cost-prohibitive to build new churches because of greedy zoning rules.

Just a thought...

Art Hebbeler
Chapter Advisor, Phi-Delta Zeta of Lambda Chi Alpha
AA 1038 (Butler '82 -- Go Dawgs!)

Good point, but even as a non-profit organization when it comes to land especially for the expansion of a school that really makes no difference or if for some kind of sity wide expansion, he wiuth the most $$ wins. It may be challenged for appraisal. If you do, then have a certified appraiser to give a true estimate as it is usually much different than the County.

[Tom Earp]

From the sounds of it, if the Greeks are going to survive at U Tx, they will have to move farther away from campus. But not knowing the lay out of Austin, I don't really know.

But say if they can, then maybe a bus system for them to and from campus?

Just a thought?

[EE-BO]

Hard to say Tom.

The more alumni I speak to- the more they like the idea of moving further from campus- but in Austin that is very hard.

To the south of campus you have a lot of government offices leading into downtown plus a neighborhood of older homes zoned commercial, plus the ACC campus. So that is out.

To the West is Pemberton which is one of the 4 most expensive neighborhoods in Austin- every bit as pricey as West Campus and not a place where a Greek House would be tolerated.

To the North is a neighborhood growing in value at a very fast rate and where other past attempts by Greeks to move in have been vetoed.

And to the East you have ground zero for the gentrification war over Austin- and a fraternity moving into that area would find itself getting lots of negative publicity very quickly.

Going out further from there you are still in moderately expensive areas and very quickly saving a little money just isn't worth it since you are so far away from campus.

Frankly I think it might be healthy if the number of fraternities went down a bit more. Granted I don't want us to be a casualty, but while Greek Life at UT is running at 11% of students- that is reflective of an explosion in the number and number of members of multi-cultural or race-specific Greek organizations, offset by a pretty strong decline in the number of the more Anglo groups the average person tends to think of when they think "Greek".

I am not saying that to imply anything negative- but rather to further point out how the housing situation manifests itself in this.

A lot of these newer types of Greek organizations have a very different approach to their existence plus they are fairly new, so having that giant house on a hill- while something to strive for- is not an expectation or requirement for rushees. Members who go to those groups don't expect to have that. And so those groups do just fine in West Campus with a very small house holding just a few members, or with no formal house at all.

However, the kinds of organizations that composed virtually all of Greek Life here 10-20+ years ago DO have a history of being in a large house- and house size is a very important factor in rush. Housing costs are killing a lot of these organizations.

Add in the fact that UT admissions have become intensely competitive. Quite frankly, a lot of guys who would have gone Greek here 10-20 years ago in the Greek environment of that time are not so interested now because they are worried about the demands on their time.

The party kids who want to float through college on a 2.0 aren't coming to UT anymore. They can't get in.

They are instead going to Ole Miss, Alabama, Tech and other places (and it is not a coincidence that Risk Management incidents have skyrocketed at those schools while UT has actually become a lot calmer place.)

I see that as a good thing since it will be a good environment for chapters that adapt and take a more balanced approach while still having fun.

But even so, that still leaves the issue of perception versus reality when it comes to housing. I think many of the top fraternities here will keep their properties and prosper for a long time.

Yet I cannot imagine any new giant homes will be built from scratch for Greek use. The SAE rebuilding a few years ago was the last- and it had been decades since that had happened here anyway.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

Here comes a hijack!

I am going to be in Austin from the 6th to the 12th of August. What do I absolutely need to do/see?

/hijack

[yalenole]

We own our house and land. As a non-profit organization we do not pay property tax.

[Tom Earp]

That is interesting as most GLOs are counted as NOT for profit Organizations and as to now, the only monies goe only to Educational areas.

There are two bills in commettee, one in RThe Senate and House have one giving donations that are Tax deductable period.

WE need that or one of those Bills passed! One will lead to the other.

If I am in error, please let me know.

[modorney]

Zoning and (property) taxation can vary all over the country. Some places just don't zone property for tax-free uses. For example, Highland Park, Texas, does not have any churches. They are all in Dallas or University Park. Highland Park Methodist actually has its water and sewer hookup in University Park.

YMCA's often get flak from commercial health clubs, since they pay taxes and the YMCA often doesn't. Many times, the YMCA has to do extra community service stuff, to get permission to expand, remodel, etc.

It always helps to separate out the commercial part (like a church bookstore) from the non-commercial part. My college (Rensselaer) had a huge ice skating school, that ran as a tax-exempt for years, until the IRS made them pay income taxes, and the school pay the city for taxable use.

A lot of this stuff boils down to how good a lawyer you have. So, don't skimp. Many cities - Colorado Springs is an example - have lots of non-profit organizations, and the officers of those orgs get tax-free housing. There's about a thousand tax-free houses in Colorado Springs, and this is a serious hit on the city budget.

[bejazd]

Could someone describe the greek housing/neighborhood at U-Texas for me? and the method for determining property taxes? (Never been there, I know nothing about Austin.) Somebody once described the houses there to me as "lodges" but from the few pics I've seen, they look more like traditional houses or modified apt buildings. To me a lodge is a meeting room with a kitchen/bath, an office, and maybe a house dir's room.