FAMU Alumni/Current Students

[RitaMae1908]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

WOOOO-SAAAA
WOOOO-SAAAA

Is everybody ok now?

Good...


Let's take all of our personal biases and love for HBCU's out of this. Let's look at this not in terms of black and white, no pun intended, but in green.

Florida A&M University, one of the PREMIER Educational Institutions in this land has hit a tough spot. 39 Million Dollars missing is a buttload of money...for ANYBODY. The problem is that everyone is looking for someone to blame, but no one is trying to find the ACTUAL root of the problem.

Had my state legislature, or anybody's for that matter, lost 39 million dollars (especially with 1.8 million disappearing into the pocket of a brother that mopped the floors) we would be pissed to no end. We would march, protest, and call for the beheading of the governor. We wouldn't say, "well this is Governor's Nogood's fault! I know he hasn't been in office in umpteen years but so what!" We wouldn't blame the mexican at the fruitstand outside the capital building because he was nearby either. We would PUSH for accountability. We would PUSH to the root. We woudl be filled with righteous anger and indignation at the situation, not at random people involved because it seems ok to do.

(Now let's bring color back into it)

I believe HBCU's are the lifeblood, the heart, and soul of black genius. I think they are integral part of the development of the mass black consciousness and vital to our existence in this country. However, just like the church, we don't like to take a strong look at our own problems. We don't criticize our HBCU's because we love them, just like we don't criticize the church because we feel it's almost blasphemous.

If we want to help our HBCU's we need to stop giving them the benefit of complete immunity within our community. We need to hold them to the same high standards that they hold the students to. It is LITERALLY open season on HBCU financial records.


39 Million...that's a lot of tax money...

Just like we chastise our children in love, lets start loving our HBCU's instead of simply saying we do. (AND THE CHURCH!)

AMEN! AMEN!
And YES I am an alum of an HBCU!
And NO these types of things have not just occured at FAMU.

I would not be the successful, driven person that I am today if not for the HBCU education I received.

To LitAKAtor: I ride or die for my school as well (I bleed the Blue and Gold). We had our share of problems in the recent past as far the financial state of the university and university officials abusing their power. We (the alumni) must take the stance that something must be done! But family business is family business. So I TOTALLY understand the Fiery response!
To Nupe4Life: If you didn't go to an HBCU you then just understand that you leave that campus and move on the bigger and greater things, you do so feeling like you're leaving behind "family". So I think that may be part of reason why you got your a** chewed. It's like if somebody talks about "yo mama". Those are fighting words!!!

[NUPE4LIFE]

RitaMae: She didn't chew my azz out. This is a very passionate debate with credible arguments on both sides. I think I made some valid points. PhrozenGenius was able to better articulate what I was trying to say. I do feel though there is no need to ever disrespect anyone in this debate. We all want what's best for HBCU's. Like PhrozenGenius has said, this is taxpayer dollars. I as a tax payer in the state have a vested interest in how my money is used. I would be the same way if a PWI in Florida was doing the same thing.

[RitaMae1908]

Originally Posted by NUPE4LIFE

RitaMae: She didn't chew my azz out. This is a very passionate debate with credible arguments on both sides. I think I made some valid points. PhrozenGenius was able to better articulate what I was trying to say. I do feel though there is no need to ever disrespect anyone in this debate. We all want what's best for HBCU's. Like PhrozenGenius has said, this is taxpayer dollars. I as a tax payer in the state have a vested interest in how my money is used. I would be the same way if a PWI in Florida was doing the same thing.

Okay so I said "chew" but in a playful manor.. I was just trying to lighten the aire!!! Calm down already.

I will agree that you did make some valid points. But we can all make a point but are the right people hearing those points!? In other words what can we do to rectify the situation other than spouting off 'articulate' responses to a problem that remains yet unresolved.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by NUPE4LIFE

RitaMae: She didn't chew my azz out. This is a very passionate debate with credible arguments on both sides. I think I made some valid points. PhrozenGenius was able to better articulate what I was trying to say. I do feel though there is no need to ever disrespect anyone in this debate. We all want what's best for HBCU's. Like PhrozenGenius has said, this is taxpayer dollars. I as a tax payer in the state have a vested interest in how my money is used. I would be the same way if a PWI in Florida was doing the same thing.

My anger was not steered toward your concern for the mismanagement of funds - I am a taxpayer as well and am equally concerned. MY ISSUE was your comment that FAMU should close its doors - even in jest it was, imo, an irresponsible thing to say because that is what the majority has been saying for years . . . FAMU educates many AA students in this state that have good grades but are not accepted to UF or FSU . . these students go on to become lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc . . . as an alum I am interested in keeping my school open an assisting in fixing the problem - NOT seeing its doors close!

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by RitaMae1908

AMEN! AMEN!
And YES I am an alum of an HBCU!
And NO these types of things have not just occured at FAMU.

I would not be the successful, driven person that I am today if not for the HBCU education I received.

To LitAKAtor: I ride or die for my school as well (I bleed the Blue and Gold). We had our share of problems in the recent past as far the financial state of the university and university officials abusing their power. We (the alumni) must take the stance that something must be done! But family business is family business. So I TOTALLY understand the Fiery response!
To Nupe4Life: If you didn't go to an HBCU you then just understand that you leave that campus and move on the bigger and greater things, you do so feeling like you're leaving behind "family". So I think that may be part of reason why you got your a** chewed. It's like if somebody talks about "yo mama". Those are fighting words!!!

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

Don't get me wrong - as I said - I do not hold A&M or its administration blameless . . .but at the same time the BORs turned a blind eye to things that were going on that weren't quite right for a long time b/c of Hump and their "fear" of him. I am very angry at the bad light my alma mater is in, but I do NOT appreciate nor encourage people to blanketly call for the school that has educated so many to close its doors. If this was UF or FSU or USF or any of the other public universities, these legislators would not be saying such things . . .it is downright disrespectful. As I stated, the problem took 10 years to make, it is going to take more than 10 minutes to fix. I LOVE MY SCHOOL and I will dayumed if I am going to let someone who did not walk on the hill and deal with what I dealt with disrespect my beloved university. . . .PERIOD!!!!

Rita Mae and LitAKAtor, you are letting your emotions obscure the facts. And the fact is that Florida A&M University is a BUSINESS!! And like any business, if there are inadequate resources to keep that business running, that business will cease to exist one way or another.

Too many black folks are unable to separate their heart and loyalty from sound business decisions, hence you get emotionally charged discussions as these. Whether or not N4L attended FAMU is irrelevant and has nothing to do with his ability to intelligently discuss the issues at hand. As long as folk like you continue to argue, debate, and fight issues with emotions rather than with facts and business saavy, then businesses like Florida A&M University frankly deserve to go down the toilet.

This is real talk and tough love.

Signed,

A former Central State University (HBCU) student whose school encountered issues similar to that of FAMU.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

A former Central State University (HBCU) student whose school encountered issues similar to that of FAMU.

The point of your post was that your point stands even without your signature detail.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Rita Mae and LitAKAtor, you are letting your emotions obscure the facts. And the fact is that Florida A&M University is a BUSINESS!! And like any business, if there are inadequate resources to keep that business running, that business will cease to exist one way or another.

Too many black folks are unable to separate their heart and loyalty from sound business decisions, hence you get emotionally charged discussions as these. Whether or not N4L attended FAMU is irrelevant and has nothing to do with his ability to intelligently discuss the issues at hand. As long as folk like you continue to argue, debate, and fight issues with emotions rather than with facts and business saavy, then businesses like Florida A&M University frankly deserve to go down the toilet.

This is real talk and tough love.

Signed,

A former Central State University (HBCU) student whose school encountered issues similar to that of FAMU.

First, let us not get it twisted- as a BUSINESS major I quite capable of removing the emotion I feel for my school from the business aspect of running a university/business. Moreover as an ATTORNEY, I am more than capable of engaging in intelligent debate and am able to articulate facts without clouding the same with emotion. So not quite sure what you mean by "people like you."

Additionally, aside from my comment to N4L that I felt his suggestion to close FAMU's doors was irresponsible, the substance of my post was far from emotionally charged. Notwithstanding, who wouldn't be a bit peeved at someone making a blanket statement that the school you love have its doors closed without the benefit of a dialogue regarding the issue. His subject was (to my recollection - and paraphrasing)- was is it time for them to close their doors or something to that effect.

I would advise both you to read my post in its entirety instead of piece mealing it to garner its meaning. As I stated numerous times <b> I do not hold my alma mater blameless in this situation, but AGAIN it takes more than 10 minutes to fix that situation. </b> There is work that needs to be done - but it doesn't mean closing a 100+ year old school's doors without a valiant effort to fix the issues. In light of the historical significance FAMU has in this state, it deserves the opportunity to attempt to fix the fiscal problems that are there . . .that is what is occurring now.


DSTCHAOS's statment:

"When you look at the issue objectively, HBCUs have a lot of structural problems. Many of them don't have the stellar reputations that they once did."

As do PWUs (structural problems). Re: stellar reputations - is do you have some facts to support this blanket statement. I would disagree with the term many - I would say some - but then again, there are SOME PWU's that have less than stellar reps as well. So, what is your point? Objectively speaking, I can name SEVERAL HBCUs whose educational programs are top notch and its graduates are competing and can compete with the likes of ANY graduate from ANY PWU, to wit - FAMU (pharmacy, nursing, education, business) Hampton (architecture, pharmacy), North Carolina A&T (engineering), and let me not forget Morehouse and Spelman and the host of other HBCUs who have have excellent educational reputations. If you have some facts to the contrary, please share - I am all ears. (in case there is some thought that this is an emotionally charged statement- let me quash those thoughts now - it isn't - if you have contrary information - please share

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

As do PWUs (structural problems).

We aren't talking about PWIs. You can start a thread on them if you want.

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

Re: stellar reputations - is do you have some facts to support this blanket statement.

This is qualitative information that are "facts" simply because I have read and heard the opinions myself. Reputation is based on both the objective and the subjective. In that case:

Many HBCU alum, administration, employers, graduate schools, general population people, etc. don't hold schools like Hampton and Howard in the same regard as they once did in terms of 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige (subjectively defined).

This isn't a point of debate as far as I'm concerned because for every person who respects HBCUs as a whole there will always be (more) people who don't. Simple as that.

ETA: I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky--there's one HBCU that I absolutely adore and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD, as far as I'm concerned.

[PhrozenGenius]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

We aren't talking about PWIs. You can start a thread on them if you want.

Asinine statement. As soon as the term "HBCU" got thrown out there the point of reference became PWI's in terms of institutional direction, accountability, and the way this would have been handled. The question in effect became: If UCF, USF, UF, FSU, or even Sterling had messed up like this would there have been a call to close it? You know it. If we were talking about Higher Educational Institutions in general there would be no need to use the term "HBCU" or "PWI" in this discussion whatsoever.

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

This is qualitative information that are "facts" simply because I have read and heard the opinions myself. Reputation is based on both the objective and the subjective. In that case:

Many HBCU alum, administration, employers, graduate schools, general population people, etc. don't hold schools like Hampton and Howard in the same regard as they once did in terms of 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige (subjectively defined).

This isn't a point of debate as far as I'm concerned because for every person who respects HBCUs as a whole there will always be (more) people who don't. Simple as that.

ETA: I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky--there's one HBCU that I absolutely adore and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD, as far as I'm concerned.

Sounds like your opinion and circle of sociality have been disguised as qualitative information. Well, as we all know you can't have qualitative without info without quantitative aspects and methodology. How many were surveyed? How many people don't respect HBCU's? How can we measure the quality of students at the institutions versus their predecessors? When did HBCU's become less academically rigorous? What institutions in specific? Unless you can answer those questions don't call it qualitative.

Plus, your last statement completely negates your earlier points. "There's one HBCU that I absolutely ador and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD" comes right after you say people don't respect HBCU's....

NEWS FLASH: I'm not flaming you. I'm just coming at you in the same way that LitAKAtor came at N4L. Just like she said his post about closing FAMU down was irresponsible I'm saying the same about yours.

All in all, this boils down to what I said before. We need to stress accountability for our institutions actions and stop giving our black people "who've made it" a pass to do whatever they feel like doing with our institutions. Whether it's the NAACP, FAMU, the National Urban League, whatever. If Spike Lee starts screwing up 40 Acres and a Mule I'm gonna be right there calling his ass out. These HBCU's and institutions are not here just for the alumni and students but ALL of us. I went to a PWI, but that doesn't mean I don't love HBCU's any less than some of the people that went there. I will call out ANYONE that either A)receives my tax money or B) is working in OUR interest...

Peace Out

Phrozen Genius
(From the state with more HBCU's than ANY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION!)

[1908Revelations]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

(From the state with more HBCU's than ANY OTHER STATE IN THE NATION!)

I live in Alabama too!

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

As soon as the term "HBCU" got thrown out there the point of reference became PWI's

If I'm not the one who brought it up, I'm not talking about PWIs. Assinine that.

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Well, as we all know you can't have qualitative without info without quantitative aspects and methodology.

NOT true.

Even if it was true, if you don't have the quantitative info to trump any dissenting qualitative data, what's your point?

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

How many were surveyed? How many people don't respect HBCU's? How can we measure the quality of students at the institutions versus their predecessors? When did HBCU's become less academically rigorous? What institutions in specific? Unless you can answer those questions don't call it qualitative.

These questions were asked because you don't have a complete understanding of what "qualitative" means when used outside of a "methodology" context. Either way, I made no mention of rigorous methodology or even a survey being conducted. Moreover, many studies use qualitative data in the form of participant observation to go beyond the numbers and see how people really feel. Participant observation sizes can range from 1 to 100. So let's say my sample size was 200 from having had these discussions over the past 10 years. Let's say I've talked to alum from the 1960s to the 2000s. Let's say I won't tell the schools because I don't want to read people's hurt feelings about their HBCU.

What now? Nothing. So, miss me with whatever opinion you have from this point on and whatever lesson you thought you were teaching.

Originally Posted by PhrozenGenius

Plus, your last statement completely negates your earlier points.

This makes no sense but that doesn't shock me. I guess you missed this part of my post that came right before the one you attached your ass to:

Originally Posted by DSTChaos

I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky.

If you're going to "debate," show that you can completely read and understand the opposing viewpoint before you attempt to counter it.

[PhrozenGenius]

I'm not going to debate anything you just attempted to break down because it essentially weakened your argument. You took your opinion, tried to pass it off as gospel/data/truth/the vox populi and then contradicted yourself *sigh*

Anyways, what do you think should be the next step as far as this situation is concerned? What should the Board of Regents and FAMU do to correct this problem?

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

This is qualitative information that are "facts" simply because I have read and heard the opinions myself. Reputation is based on both the objective and the subjective. In that case:

Many HBCU alum, administration, employers, graduate schools, general population people, etc. don't hold schools like Hampton and Howard in the same regard as they once did in terms of 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige (subjectively defined).

This isn't a point of debate as far as I'm concerned because for every person who respects HBCUs as a whole there will always be (more) people who don't. Simple as that.

ETA: I'm talking about the colleges and universities as a whole, not particular departments or programs. So mentioning a school's specific program to me doesn't dismiss the idea of it being a struggling HBCU as a whole. I'm also not talking about ALL HBCUs being sucky--there's one HBCU that I absolutely adore and it is one of the best schools in the national PERIOD, as far as I'm concerned.

As you once again have failed to provide SPECIFIC facts that substantiate any of your OPINIONS, I won't engage in a back and forth with you about this issue. If you have SPECIFIC data regarding that lack of: 1) academic rigor; 2) quality of student body; 3) preparation for the job market or graduate school; and 4) prestige that led to your views, then okay. If not, it is, in my opinon, conjecture and not entitled to more weight than that given to just one person's opinion based on other people's OPINIONS. That would kind of be like me making an argument to the court about a position I was taking with no legal support . . . . ain't gonna fly.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by litAKAtor

I won't engage in a back and forth with you about this issue.

Good because, like I said, there is always a subjective approach to this topic that not everyone will agree on regardless of what info is provided.

I never cared to debate with you and have moved on.

[litAKAtor]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Good because, like I said, there is always a subjective approach to this topic that not everyone will agree on regardless of what info is provided.

I never cared to debate with you and have moved on.

CLEARLY you haven't - thus your recent post. But it's whatever. You still have failed to provide any factual information to support your original post despite Phrozen and my inquiry as to the same.